Game 10

Hope everyone is holding up well....

Just looking through the forum as I do sporadically and I'm always entertained by the passive aggression

Just working through my turn and it's still very slow as a new player, hopefully starting to move! I did get my turn in late though due to getting the dreaded cough.

J Flower wrote:Was a bit confused by the entry in the paper concerning Phillip 'd Orleans in that he is nephew & son in law to King Louis. Does that mean son of one of one of King Louis  Sisters, & also married to a sister of Same King?  

Could this Apollo stuff be a Swashbuckler player having a lot of fun at our expense ? Seems they are prepared to have a go at all of us.

For info Philippe d'Orleans is a real historic figure (after period G10 is in he was the patron of John Law and acted as Regent of France  for Louis XV).  Bourbon family tree is a bit mixed up in 1700 partly because Louis XIV was a bit of a "player" in his early days and they seem to suffer from a shortage of names but basically:

The Philippe d'Orleans who in G10 is acting as regent in Flanders for Louis XIV Grandson - the Philippe who is the Duc of Anjou.  Is the son of Louis XIV bother Philippe I, Duke of Orleans and Elizabeth Charlotte, Princess of the Palatine.  

In 1700 his full sister had already married the Duke of Lorraine and he was married to Francoise Marie de Bourbon who is the daughter of Louis XIV ....made legitimate by the influence of the King but her mother is not one of Louis XIV actal wives!  Who Louis XIV had made Duchess of Orleans.  So Philippe d'Orleans is married to the Duchess of Orleans but the Duke is still his father.

In G10 Phiippe I Duke of Orleans is part of the Royal French faction.  His son seems to have fallen in with the fast set - Real Tennis partner of Claude de Forbin and Chairman of the Compaigne du Isles.  While Francoise Marie de Bourbon is firmly Agema (and trouble).

Thus it can clearly be seen that in G10 the Corsair's are not pirates and have investors and patrons at a very high level in polite Society.  Also that with a family history like the Bourbons both the Royal Family and its Cadet branches control of the Church in France is never going to be allowed to leave its borders and anyone who tries to suggest it will be going for a long boat ride!  Just think having to go all the way to Rome and pay Imperial layers just to get a daughter made legitimate!!

SteelCityTyke wrote:Hope everyone is holding up well....

Just looking through the forum as I do sporadically and I'm always entertained by the passive aggression

Just working through my turn and it's still very slow as a new player,  hopefully starting to move! I did get my turn in late though due to getting the dreaded cough.

Hope you are feeling better now

Stuart Bailey wrote:

SteelCityTyke wrote:Hope everyone is holding up well....

Just looking through the forum as I do sporadically and I'm always entertained by the passive aggression

Just working through my turn and it's still very slow as a new player,  hopefully starting to move! I did get my turn in late though due to getting the dreaded cough.

Hope you are feeling better now

Just to reinforce Stuart, hope you're recovering!

And interested to read of your attempts to improve Copenhagen

G10 has shown up and think there must be a mis-print or my memory has gone I think my honour score seems to have gone up by 4 points in a month. Do not think I have ever got an increase of more than 2 honour point in one month before now so its probably just my memory.

Not sure if this is due to gifts of salted fish etc to French Army from by character or if it as the swimming classes laid on for Swedes and Italians after running out of jail space.

Was expecting Danes and Rumelians to pick up a few soggy recruits and with perhaps a few more going glug depending on the will of God.......not the whole lot. Not sure if this is proof that God hates all Swedes or loves them all and wants to take them all back. But at least it is now hnown that Swedes do not go in for Witchcraft?

Hmmm Stuart, I seem to remember pirates were supposed to get honour points by doing dishonourable deeds...so drowning lots of Swedish innocent sailors could be said to be dishonourable, so dishonourable a pirate would get a lot of "honour" from doing it...

...so we have final proof Corsairs are a bunch of pirates...afterall even the newspaper called it a "dreadful deed"

This could put the RN in a quandary...I mean the English government has hinted it might help out with the sacking of Rome...but could it assist a side who drown captured sailors?

Jason2 wrote:Hmmm Stuart, I seem to remember pirates were supposed to get honour points by doing dishonourable deeds...so drowning lots of Swedish innocent sailors could be said to be dishonourable, so dishonourable a pirate would get a lot of "honour" from doing it...

...so we have final proof Corsairs are a bunch of pirates...afterall even the newspaper called it a "dreadful deed"

Not just drowning innocent sailors this month, but also the murder of the Mayor of Palermo. I'm amazed Corsair honour only rose by 4 points. Perhaps there was a reciprocal fall in French honour to balance things up?

Does make

Stuart Bailey wrote:Thus it can clearly be seen that in G10 the Corsair's are not pirates and have investors and patrons at a very high level in polite Society.

a rather wishful piece of propaganda.

I wonder if next month we will see the wholesale slaughter of civilians on Sicily by the Bourbon pretender? And what reaction there will be from Roderigo to French attacks on what he considers to be Spanish subjects?

I guess if you can't engage constructively and make friends, the only option left is to kill everybody and then wonder where you went wrong?

I can well imagine that corsair honour gains from nasty behavior also apply downward pressure on French honour.

While 4 points is a lot to gain on one turn, I do think that honour gains are easier if you're at low honour relative to others in the game. The game seems to have a 'reversion to the mean' attribute to honour, so getting to average honour is easier. Makes sense as a catchup mechanism in games, otherwise late joiners would never be competitive.

Oddly the Mayor was nothing to do with me.  He was hung for treason French Army troops in the service of the King of Sicily.

The 13 ships which sailed out of St.Malo in Feb (funny time of year to set sail) and I assume captured five more Swedes were also not mine.  But I guess they could have had letters of Marque issued by Clerks in the Privateering Branch???? (can I add them to my score )

Swedes and Genoan's who went over the side and got told to swim that far out was because France is out of goal space and I was trying to stay out of other peoples territorial waters.  Not really my problem that they are such crap swimmers.

But hell if I am going to be given more honour in one month than I have ever seen before & get credit for things I did not even do - all I can say is that it makes a very nice change indeed.

Also  its a clear sign from the opinion of a ravaged and burnt  La Belle France that the only good heretic Swede invader is a dead one!


PS French Corsair honour was not low.......Have had two characters with very high 50+ honour scores bit current score is higher end of average for most of mine.  Fairly sure none of my ships have run into rocks due to drunk look outs, got eat by sea monsters or had a ii had a mutiny or sunk in harbour.  The usual thing that happens if you have very low honour or are Russian.

Interesting that there are Corsairs not under your control...do I need two sets of gallows on the Grassmarket? One for the official Corsairs and one for the imposters?

If it helps the Mayor was nothing to do with me either - so France may well find she has upset another player next month.

Is there a game record for how many players are at war with a single nation? And does France in G10 hold it?

As for 2 sets of gallows, Jason2 is missing a trick: simply use one of the prizes the pirates have captured, decorate the spars with them, then sink the vessel. Should be able to deal with them in batches of 50 without difficulty. Saves a lot of paperwork and as pirates they do not deserve being separated from imposters.

As far as I can tell, unlike scramble, Honour has no impact upon random events. I've been top of the honour rolls in game 8 for years and random problems still happen to my position regularly.

Well, I hope everyone is enjoying Western Christian Easter,Jewish Passover or the long weekend!

I finally opened the turn & then I read the recent exchanges on here. All in all, a tremendous amount of fun. I love that so many people have had time to put so much into this turn.

My absolute favourite bit was the Duke of Savoy refusing to negotiate, until Austria & Genoa stopped referring to him as ‘the artist formerly known as the Duke’ of Savoy.

I need to get out some thank you notes next turn. Thanks in advance to all who helped the Genoese cause.

It looks like the ‘are the Corsairs Pirates?’ debate has finally been resolved, with this turn’s execution activity + resultant honour jump.

& I imagine with the Watts algorithm of cause & effect, not everyone will be smiling at this. I imagine the key is to tie Corsair actions to every allied power & supporter.

It looks like the Gallican Church is quite upset with our beloved Doge of Genoa. Could it be the result of too many cold showers and the guilt of too much man to self handed combat? One really should not give way to jealousy, it really eats away at the soul...

Mr Flowers, I suspect Apollo is an in game country player. My suspicion on who has changed over the last few months.

Jason2, I concur that we appear to have confirmation on the nature of our Corsair chums.

Marshal Bombast, I wish you a full & speedy recovery my friend.

SteelCityTyke, I wish you a full & speedy recovery as well, my friend.

PapaC, all the French & Savoyards I have captured have volunteered to join the Doge, so no need for gallows yet. I promise some elegiac prose, one I have a few Corsair’s in custody.

Deacon, I agree with your reversion to mean theory on Honour. As long as you ease up on previous policies, a new player can get a Low honour to Median quite quickly (in my experience).

Revenant, sorry to hear that on the turn return Blue. I know from experience it can be damn disheartening in game. Stick with it, I love the flavour you are bringing to the game.

Ponders...

...given the obvious natural brilliance of both the Doge and Lord Melville...what would happen if these two meet in G10...apart from a very whisky-soaked and wild party...

...perhaps a devilish plot that ends up with the Doge being both Pope and Holy Roman Emperor...and Lord Melville as Protector and Overlord of all north European states...

(warning-this post may contain nuts)

Jason2 wrote:Ponders...

...given the obvious natural brilliance of both the Doge and Lord Melville...what would happen if these two meet in G10...apart from a very whisky-soaked and wild party...

...perhaps a devilish plot that ends up with the Doge being both Pope and Holy Roman Emperor...and Lord Melville as Protector and Overlord of all north European states...

(warning-this post may contain nuts)

As if seating planning for wedding breakfasts wasn't bad enough...

Papa Clement wrote:If it helps the Mayor was nothing to do with me either - so France may well find she has upset another player next month.

Is there a game record for how many players are at war with a single nation?  And does France in G10 hold it?

As for 2 sets of gallows, Jason2 is missing a trick: simply use one of the prizes the pirates have captured, decorate the spars with them, then sink the vessel.  Should be able to deal with them in batches of 50 without difficulty.  Saves a lot of paperwork and as pirates they do not deserve being separated from imposters.

Think the in game record for most players at war with a single Nation is held by France but in G2.......with a score of 9? But other players may be able to correct this figure or bring in info from other games.

- New French player decided to have the revolution 90 years early cut off the head of Louis XV or XVI ??? on his first turn and on second declared war on the Holy Roman Empire & marched on the Rhine.

- active HRE players at the time included the Emperor, Bavaria, Spain, Sweden and Prussia but these players also had various mutual defence pacts like the Warsaw Pact which also caused the Russian & Polish players to declare war on the French. That was 7 players for certain plus the English and the Dutch had clashes with revoltionary naval forces but do not know for certain if they got their formal declarations of war in due to a mutual defence pact or even due to a dislike of people going round cutting of Bourbon heads.

Have to admitt as wars go it was a big let down. Apart from the new French player clearly being in the wrong period/game he did not even seem to be aware that he had just executed the King of Spain family (not that he liked them very much) and declared war on his Imperial holdings. Result French armies were on the Rhine as Philip of Anjou marched North under the Lilly Banner with thousands of French loyalists flocking to the Bourbon colours and cities thro.

Result new French Government dropped out and war ended with a Bourbon restoration........loud cries from the Ottomans in the cheap seats of boring, boring call that a war!

My own record for fighting most other players at the same time also from G2 is a lowly six due to having a totally unjust crusade called against my character. But at least the "Crusaders" got a proper fight! and my honour almost hit sixty:D

Brilliant Stuart ... that sounds even more of a mess than G10. Is the player for France in G2 still around? It must really take astonishing ineptitude to upset so many other players and your own position at the same time.

I thought England in G7 might have held the record, but it is most reassuring that I didn't. I suppose factions don't really count the same as proper nations. 9 major nations all against France when France was busy being at war with itself. You'll have to put up a new thread with a potted history of what sounds like a most bizarre period in that game. Certainly sounds as if you enjoyed that fight.

Papa Clement wrote:Brilliant Stuart ... that sounds even more of a mess than G10.  Is the player for France in G2 still around?  It must really take astonishing ineptitude to upset so many other players and your own position at the same time.

I thought England in G7 might have held the record, but it is most reassuring that I didn't.  I suppose factions don't really count the same as proper nations.  9 major nations all against France when France was busy being at war with itself.  You'll have to put up a new thread with a potted history of what sounds like a most bizarre period in that game.  Certainly sounds as if you enjoyed that fight.

I had just joined G2 as Rumelia and did not have anything to do with these French revolutionary events apart from reading what was in the paper but it was all over very quickly in 4-5 turns max.

Best I can compare it too was the Churchill/James II period in England G7 if Churchill had also declared war on lots of other players at the same time.

Think French player realized he had got off on totally wrong foot and 90 years too early for French columns of attack and dropped out. Dont know if he or she has played again but if you learn from your mistakes this was a very steep learning curve!

Most other players seemed to be left in some confusion and asking "What just happened"?? Next French player borrowed a legitimate Bourbon heir from Spain and played as Regent of France for the boy king and trying really hard to forget what had just happened and France seemed to recover fairly well. Think the only thing which had been really trashed was the French honour score which had sunk almost below the floor level but that seemed to bounce back fairly quickly.

So I people are into "What is the biggest mess you can pick up" think James III in G7 curremtly ties with G10 Spain.

But for a - new player thinking "I will take a nice simple position so I can get the hang of the game" I am not sure the new Grandmaster of Malta has picked the right game as all in G10 and probably gets a honourable mention.

I guess every player has made a few mistakes in their games - I certainly have.

In my first position someone had advised that I should not have any taxes on the nobility so I didn't and couldn't work out where my income had disappeared to. Add in a famine and a complete lack of understanding of armies, and I can only conclude that the GM was being kind to a new player. Diplomacy was also far from my strong point back then and I think I might even have written letters by hand which wouldn't have helped since nobody could read them. Game turns were roughly every 2 weeks so mistakes were easier to recover from if you learned about how the game worked. I wasn't much better in my 2nd position which at least was European so should have been more familiar - I probably picked the wrong one there as I really didn't know what to do with it and famines again destroyed my economy. My 3rd position was too big for my level of experience and after being hit by 2 consecutive famines I dropped, thinking I'd been cursed (to have 2 famines in a row is bad, but 4 across 2 separate positions?!) For my 4th position I tried a pirate position (mainly to avoid having another famine) and discovered I was useless as a pirate. My 5th position was Japan, but I never really got the hang of it and dropped fairly quickly.

It was only really by the time I started my 6th position (Asante) that I began to plan things properly and understand about the game, doing a bit more research into the individual positions rather than just playing each position based on its economy/recruit potential. In a sense in African positions you are forced to do research into culture/beliefs since you can't just rely on European technology (the rulebooks were still very European-oriented back then). That game folded just as I was really making progress and I carried forward a lot of what I had done into Rozwi, before dropping that when G7 started. So I suppose my approach really didn't develop until I was the Asante and subsequent positions tended to more and more historical realism which certainly made the game more interesting.

I can imagine that the G2 France player took on more than he could handle and was unfamiliar with the game and period. Sounds like his successor took the easy option and that's all it usually takes to recover.

I tend to agree that the new Grandmaster of Malta might have found it easier to be Malta in G8 where there is a stable and experienced Spain who could mentor him and help him. But we're all different so who knows? Games get in a mess, but usually sort themselves out as either players drop or situations resolve themselves. I know I would have struggled 25 years ago to play against myself as I am now, but then I imagine there are others in the same position.

Papa Clement wrote:

I tend to agree that the new Grandmaster of Malta might have found it easier to be Malta in G8 where there is a stable and experienced Spain who could mentor him and help him.  But we're all different so who knows?  Games get in a mess, but usually sort themselves out as either players drop or situations resolve themselves.  I know I would have struggled 25 years ago to play against myself as I am now, but then I imagine there are others in the same position.

At the risk of giving Papa ideas...given the situation in G10, perhaps the Pope could reach out to the Knights?

Jason2 wrote:

Papa Clement wrote:

I tend to agree that the new Grandmaster of Malta might have found it easier to be Malta in G8 where there is a stable and experienced Spain who could mentor him and help him.  But we're all different so who knows?  Games get in a mess, but usually sort themselves out as either players drop or situations resolve themselves.  I know I would have struggled 25 years ago to play against myself as I am now, but then I imagine there are others in the same position.

At the risk of giving Papa ideas...given the situation in G10, perhaps the Pope could reach out to the Knights?

That's been discussed on "another new player" thread - I want to help, but both positions need some guidance from the GM.

Don't worry, I have plenty of ideas, but there are other factors that come into consideration that may determine what happens next, things I can't go into on here.

Papa Clement wrote:I guess every player has made a few mistakes in their games - I certainly have.

The one mistake that has stuck in my mind is in many ways a minor one but it was also so odd, it's impacted on every game since.

In G6 (Scotland) I decided to open an agricultural academy and it was to be the first part of a multi-faculty university, recreating in game the university at St Andrews, on the east coast of Scotland (a bit south of Dundee for those whose Scottish geography isn't strong).

All well and good...except in G6 Scotland held the island of St Andrew's in the West Indies, population a few shipwreck sailors, a couple of hundred pigs and some goats...who were I'm sure very proud when the "University of St Andrews-Faculty of Agricultural" opened in their mist.

I had this mental image of this big impressive building on a desert island, and the few locals going "WTF"

Ever since then, I have been really exact about locations for anything, be it an institution, military unit or bunch of settlers

That would be the same St.Andrews Isle that I suggest (in G7) Anglican bishops could be appointed to if they are very disagreeable!

I know that kind of error well. Actually it is very easy to make (Plymouth England or Plymouth America, Boston England or Boston America, etc) Also since some locations are known by different names by different countries it really isn't easy sometimes.

Someone once asked to buy a particular colony off me and I found it on a totally different continent, but couldn't find it where he expected it to be.

Perhaps we should open a new thread: LGDR blunders or some such title?

The Coffee Shops have been rife with speculation on war, trade, science and society. Now we can bring you the unadulterated truth as reported in the February 1704 edition of the Mercurius Politicus.

1. In a surprise move His Majesty King Charles XII of Sweden fell down the honour rankings.  The question remains whether he tripped or was pushed, being called a heretic probably didn’t help.  

2. In London Parliament cried out that they had not been able to rest from months of Lord Godolphin’s speeches.

Lord Godolphin blamed His Holiness for further Protestant nations not joining the war against France. Going as far to imply that if His Holiness’ Kraken like limbs don’t pull back then French Corsairs would be the least of Rome’s problems when the Dutch and English navies set sail. Perhaps the Genoese statement should have clarified the type of intervention they would like to see from the Maritime powers.

James Hamilton, the Keeper of Holyrood & Master of the Great Wardrobe, heard about King William’s trapped parliamentarians and rushed to their aid only to find he was too late. Those responsible for the noise were either taken away by witches or the Apollo Association (so popular because they pay better than any Scot). Realistically they probably just had too many toasts before joining Lord Melville’s banquet, where further toast’s preceded talk of a Fae court Far, Far, Away.

Listening to Lords is probably better than being in the gaol’s in Spain or Savoy which are filling up quite nicely, and infinitely better than those in France.  Many blond-haired prisoners washed up on the Adriatic shore, as they could not fit in the French gaols, which may also have helped King Charles fall from societal grace.

Meanwhile His Majesty King William set up a Darien venture compensation scheme before blaming everything on the King Louis’ incompetent servants.

3. Philippe d'Orleans, whose lineage has confused Russian genealogists was heard urging France not to make peace while the enemy were on French soil. By extension does this mean that the Philippines, as Spanish lands, should now be French and therefore will we expect an unannounced French attack on Japanese Samurai for taking control there?  Spain claim they have rented out the islands to Japan to raise funds to pay back their loan from money lenders in Madrid. So if the Philippines are not Spain’s to rent out they could face an even bigger bill.

4. In Paris, the Sorbonne University published a robust defence of the Gallican Church against His Holiness’s rhetoric and actions which they claimed were damaging the Universal Church. This rear-guard action subsequently appeared too late as the Council of Tivoli voted the Gallican Church out of existence.

5. In Denmark preparations for the defence of the realm from within and without started. Roads in the capital were cleared ready for action, while the Navy commenced stop and search actions against Baltic merchant shipping.

6. Meanwhile Bavaria accepted their treaty obligations to the Emperor and declared war on France. Bavaria’s probably not going to be in time for fighting but was in time for her merchants to secure a bribe tax break in Austria.

7. Word on the street in Barcelona is that Charles von Hapsburg has died in a Savoyard gaol. The Cortez says there’s no proof either way.  In Alessandria Victor Amadeus II says Archduke Karl of Austria is a prisoner of war – implying he is still alive -, but that in order for peace talks to start Victor must not be referred to as ex-duke. In Venice His Sacred Majesty referred to Karl Hapsburg, King Carlos III and if he had died then Turin will burn.

Russian genealogists are having trouble keeping up, while our Heraldic department have made so many crossings out that we will have to rewrite our book of arms. Just don’t get them started on names titles for the Constant F, which seem to be getting longer and more colourful.

8. Tuscany look like becoming the gun runners of Europe, as His Holiness lines up to be a customer for their theoretical next generation weapons.  Meanwhile in Africa, European muskets are being heavily discounted to kick start an arms race there too. Chinese researchers are rewarded for inventing an improved waterwheel. Abyssinia prepares to send students to European Academies in Africa, while the Dutch are teaching farming to Africans with progress still suffering from the language barrier.

9. Japan confirms it rules the Philippines while the Great Lord on Okinawa seeking peace, pulls his troops back from the mountain guerrilla war they were embroiled in.  To save face the heads of fallen warriors are stuck on poles outside the main city.  We are not aware either way whether any gaols exist in Japan.

10. In the letters page the comedic spin off to the popular serial Apollo Association became more XXX rated in its language, probably as a result of the theme running through last months paper.  We mention this only so you know to read it after the 9pm watershed.  This was followed up by debate between lawyers over the identity of one of their own. Luckily, he’s not of noble birth so the Russian genealogy department don’t give a s***.

An excellent summary Marshal...except under point (2)...any True Scot will tell you, you cannae have too many toasts...and there's always room for one more...