What’s your best Roman meme?

Johntindall wrote:Does anyone know the composition of the Neronian Pretorian Guard please? Number of infantry versus number of cavalry? I've seen the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praetorian_Guard#Size_and_composition but it's a bit confusing.

Thanks in advance.

Think the main questions over the size and make up of the Guard are :

a) Why did it have 9 Cohorts compared too the 10 Cohorts of a more standard Legion - my view is that in a standard legion (note Legions could vary a lot in size and make up really no such thing as a standard legion in practice compared too theory) the 1st Cohort was double strength and responsible for the security of the commander. In the Guard this role was taken by the Emperor German bodyguard.

- In RIB the question which then springs too mind is has anyone seen the German bodyguard? And what the ***** were they doing when our beloved Emperor gets murdered?

- Also in RIB Richard does not mess around with double strength 1st Cohorts and has a legion composed of ten Infantry cohorts of 500 men, 4 Turmae of Cavalry and some Engineers. With variety provided by the Auxiliary formations attached to said Legion, sadly for the rebel Guards opponents in Legion XXIII the only Auxiliary help they seem to have is a few marines borrowed from the fleet while a Eastern based Legion would probably have lots of Auxiliary archers to keep horse archers away while a Iberian raised or based Legion would be looking to have Spanish Heavy Cavalry, Swordsmen and Slingers and the Gods alone know what strange machinery and units the Rhine Legions are adding.

b) When/if did the number of Guard Cohorts increase? And was this before 69 AD? - my view is that the 12 Cohorts probably allowed in Rome probably refers to both the Pretorians proper and also the Urban Cohorts.

- In Sept issue of Ad Infinitum the rebel guard is reported as having 9 Cohorts so it would seem Richard has stuck with the original number of Cohorts and not increased it.

c) How large were Pretorian Guard Cohorts - The Traditional Roman Cohort was in theory 500 men (in practice often a lot less) apart from its first Cohort which was double strength. Were the Guard Cohorts larger? Apart from the fact that the Guard with its superior pay, conditions and status would have been able to keep its numbers up better than a standard legion it does seem that Pretorian Cohorts varied in size compared too the Army and were larger than a normal Army Cohort. My belief it that the Pretorian Cohorts were equal too double first Cohorts.

- This would give make the Guard about 10,000 strong which is a traditional figure equal too a double strength legion. Also if the Guard started under Augustus with 500 strong cohorts and later Emperors and Guard Commanders wanted to increase its size it would have been easier in political terms to pad out existing Cohorts rather than raise new ones.

- In RIB however Richard seems to have kept the Guard at 9 Cohorts of 500 men (45 Centuries) rather than 9 Cohorts of 1000 men (90 Centuries). Based on fact that the rebel Guard has got 27 Turmae of Cavalry (810 Cavalry) with it and normal ratio for the Guard was 1 Turmae per 2 Century. Note the Speculatores Cavalry part of the Guard seem to have stayed loyal to Nero and the Gods know what happened to the German Bodyguard part.

D) Is the Guard any good? - Apart from the fact that Richard seems to have made the Guard no larger than a average Legion rather than say double strength. The question has been raised of had Augustus hand picked veteran's of the civil war remained the elite troops of the Empire or declined into a bunch of show ponies good at drill and bullying the civil population who will be a total liability to any Roman commander on campaign with them.

- Fact that they have just been outfought by one of the newest and most raw Legions in the whole Roman Army would seem to confirm the Guard is a Agema trap and a bunch of show ponies who will cost a fortune, mutiney, sulk and generally make life a misery for Roman Commanders while doing nothing any good on the battle field. My theory is if we say they are rubbish and send them too the outer darkness (Caladonia?) Richard may have them suddenly turn into good troops in hope that someone picks them up and they can go back too their Janissary type tricks.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Jason2 wrote:

Regor wrote:Well once Team Rome are back to the sensible level of government in Rome we might be able to right a few of these wrongs?
Britannia is probable the home of Mount Agema but it’s probably named ironically? I recon it’s somewhere in the midlands where they speak funny or based by the standing stones on that wet windswept plain?
Anyhow the Romans should just hunker down and do what they do best batter thier enemies at home and abroad?

Mount Agema sounds like it might be in the Midlands...sounds far too Classical to be somewhere sensible and civilized like Caledonia...

Or perhaps it's in Cambridgeshire and is infact the surviving remnant of Troy  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Troy_Once_Stood   (note: post may contain nuts...and cashews)

If the surviving remnant of Troy is actually in Cambridgeshire, odd that Homer did not say more about the bitter cold and mists or people's Chariots sinking into the fens.  Clearly tough lot these pre-Greeks since if I spent 10 days in winter on a North Sea coast let alone ten whole winters would have had a few things to say about the wind going right through you.

Though anyone who fights a war over control of Cornish Tin in Cambridgeshire (Cornish do not even pay attention to things happening in Devon) clearly has a geographic problem which would sort of explain Book 2 and everyone getting lost.

However, if Troy is in Britannia......Rome founded by exiled Prince from Troy..........so Britannia must be ROMAN    
a

Oh don't worry Stuart, I find the whole idea completely nuts...but given the way Scramble has gone, if Rome goes the same way...

Though I would argue if Troy is in Britannia...and Rome founded by an exiled Prince from Troy...then Rome is Britannic...

I am a bit concerned, after reading the newspaper and seeing some recent posts, that Agema is about to cause a lot of Roman commanders to come over all unnecessary at the thought of an attractive powerful woman being in charge....I mean a lot of players are of a certain age, and such thoughts and over-excitement might cause heart attacks and the like

Luckily we in Caledonia are use to such women

Jason2 wrote:I am a bit concerned, after reading the newspaper and seeing some recent posts, that Agema is about to cause a lot of Roman commanders to come over all unnecessary at the thought of an attractive powerful woman being in charge....I mean a lot of players are of a certain age, and such thoughts and over-excitement might cause heart attacks and the like

Luckily we in Caledonia are use to such women

Following death of Nero the chief judge is now the No 1 legal authority in Rome. But when asked to convict the rebels and outlaw their leaders, he decided it was actually a matter of military discipline and should go too the C in C of the Army. That position like many others was held by Nero but is now currently vacant awaiting election of new consul (or Dictator). Senatorial missions in Iberia also declined to do any work without order from the Censor (another post held by Nero). Think we may be seeing a bit of a theme here!

With the chief judge kicking the can down the road looks like what to do with any captured/surrendered rebels......is going to end up in the in-tray of a PC Consul.

One option would be for "Hanging Judge Vitilles" or "Hanging Judge Germinus" to decide the whole unit is beond redemption and wipe out the lot of them. But historically this was hardly ever done and a minor decimation was usual punishment (If you know you are going to die no point in surrender......while a 90% survival chance gives incentive to surrender while 10% chance of getting killed by own mates would seem reason not to be bad).

10% minor decimation waived for cohort which bring in head of Cordus followed by removal of superior pay and status and exile to far north of east untill they have reclaimed their honour fighting Barbarians would probably have Consul Vitilles or Consul Germinus marked down as "Hard but fair" (In Roman terms).

Problem is were the hell do we exile the rebel guards to give them a chance to reclaim their unit honour? East against the King of Kings has its backers but others favour Wall building duty in the far, far north? Or even send them to recover a missing Eagle since getting back a lost Eagle is a sure fire way to reclaim lost honour. Dieing in the attempt also works fairly well.

Thought did occur to me that some could totally disgrace themselves beond hope of any redemption and go native. Think of the fun Jason 2 could have with a renagade engineering section or a renagade cohort or two marrying local attractive powerful in charge woman and forming their own clan with its own stronghold. A new Troy in the north?

Ad Infinitum for Februarius 820 has showed up and if anyone is considering joining the murky world of Roman politics found in The Rome is Burning game in the new year here are the latest highlights. Though it is only fair to point out that the below report is purely one viewpoint and mostly guess work and the game is mostly played in a total fog.

1) King Vologases of Parthia comfortably retained his position as leading very bad man in “Rome is Burning”. According to team Rome Vologases issues x4 orders every month a) Try and influence someone to attack Rome from outside b) Try and recruit and agent to attack Rome from inside c) Make some weird religious statement and d) Pose for some artist to make a rock carving or something showing Vologases on his horse trampling Romans.

- Vologases latest success was to influence King Soroes of the Alani to hire him half of this hairy horse types to make war on Rome for the sum of 2m denerii. This followed on from Vologases hire of Bedu to do the same thing a couple of months before. A crime against Rome which this month resulted in 500 Roman Judean Jewish cavalry of Ala II Augusta Gallorum Equites wiped out in a Bedu ambush. King Vologases is also believed to be backing pirates attacking Roman shipping in the Red Sea and various other bandits, rebels and traitors.

- The success of Vologases in causing trouble for Rome would now seem to have caused a major problem for want to be and self proclaimed Emperors who have not taken Parthian gold and are not working for Vologases. In that most Roman Generals and Legions now assume all such traitors are working for Vologases and are bought and paid for by Ctesiphon.

2) Such is the success of Vologases the Vile in his attempts to make life hard for Romans that King Harold Agrippa II of Judea woke up enough to issue Rome with a warning about the Parthian menace. Tell us something we don’t already know !!! This tended to confirm the Roman view of most Kings. But at least the noble Marcus S Otho has made it too Judea to help sort out the growing mess in the East.

3) Also in the east Gaius C Tuscus the governor of Egypt when not being mentioned in strange Druidic ramblings in the far north and west has finally driven raiders from the south out of Egypt. But seems more concerned by being abandoned, betrayed and humiliated by the formerly “Egyptain” block in the Roman senate lead by Senator now self proclaimed “Emperor” Pomponius.

- Senator and want to be Emperor finished the month held captive by Legion XXIII which may directly reflect the abandonment issues of Alaxandria and threats to stop grain shipments too Rome. Or the indirect influence of Pomponius being thrown to the wolves by his former backers in Alexandria.

4) Senator want to be Emperor Pomponius is currently charged with trying to usurp the rights of the Roman people to elect their own magistrates, various other self proclaimed Emperors like Cordus face the same charge and the rebel guard and the rebel legion in Asia also faced charges……..which to some of us looked cast Iron, set in stone and impossible to avoid.

- However, a key difference between Rome is Burning and Glori showed up at this point. Just because the chief Judge is on the list of people you can influence and you have a solid legal case do not assume he can not be influenced by others or will not act like a classic Agema NPC.

- Pomponius may be under arrest and the Chief Judge may be the number one legal authority now Nero is dec’d but can you get a conviction against him and the other rebels? No, because the Chief Judge has decided its a matter of military discipline and should be decided by the Army Commander. Following death of Nero another vacant office which will only be filled when a new consul is elected.

5) Mention was also made that this election would be by the Senate !!! Oh no its not !!!! The Senate can veto unsuitable types but Roman Consuls, Censors and the Pontifix were voted for by the Roman people organized in their Gens. Anyone who says otherwise will be trying to usurp the traditional laws of Rome and the rights of the Roman people.

- Probably should be noted that in Rome is burning only two allied Gens have really been mentioned due to starting the game having a row about a statue. It took a marriage between a Ulpus Girl and a Ailii boy plus hundreds of thousands of denarii to fix the statue and the Temple of Mars for it to go in. Then hundreds of thousands more to provide food and shelter for the gens and their friends and allies in Rome and now some ****** wants to deny our carefully united and organized Gens the vote just cause some of us (Ok massive majority) are a bit plebian !! And will then probably want to pardon the traitors. Its an outrage and an attempted stitch up by the Chaos Gods on Mount Agema.

- Should also be mentioned that the in the same month as the Ailii boy moved another Statue into the Temple of Apollo and restored the twins (Apollo and Diana) Temples his wife the Ulpus Girl gave birth to a son and a daughter. Little Hadrian is doing well and will shortly get his first building blocks. While the main Ailii leader is sat just east of Rome will a full Legion.

6) Also in Rome Nero widow probably temporarily mad with grief asked to see his will on route to his executor. Read out that she is to marry said executor Marcus Ulpus Trajan after the death of his wife and he is then to be made Emperor on marrying her. Which is a pretty major change to the instructions Trajan had been given prior to this and no doubt had him and the expected beneficiaries of the will like the Roman Army wondering what other last minute changes Nero had made. Unfortunately they are unable to find out as the grief maddened widow then burnt the will !!

- No doubt they should be very annoyed that a female who is not even a full citizen destroyed this valuable legal record but her cuteness Poppaea Augusta Sabina seems to get away with a lot. Hopefully something can be done to sort out this legal mess or we are going to have some very disappointed and annoyed Legions. Last four Emperors all left them something !!

7) Someone – probably painted blue and laughing himself sick in some god forsaken glen on the edge of the world - seems to have jumped the gun in claiming that the Roman Army has lost Cordus and the Guard. As Cavalry elements of Legion XXIII seem to have found Cordus and the rebels taking rest at Interammia south east of Rome and raided their horse lines.

- The raid seems to have ruined any attempt to rest and as their tried to round up their scattered horses in winter many rebels seem to have decided that their commander is an idiot who did not even post a watch and they are off. This would seem to indicate that the rebels are at least SL #6 and may be an easy victory for a Roman Commander who wants to look good to his troops, the voters, the Empress or all three.

Ref the election we currently have three names but forward for consul, two for censor and one for Pontifix. As vote is in April there is still time for other people who wish to serve Rome and have the rank for the post to put their names forward and everyone still needs to say what program they are standing on……...which could be very interesting.

In other news from outside of Italy:

9) The Dacians are unhappy and Dacian slaves get rubbish prices at market.

10) South of the Danube they seem to be cutting tax rates, building roads, and waging campaigns of legal cases against dodgy slave traders when not worrying that their husbands and fathers may have their heads turned by the bright lights in Rome. Does this mean they are happier than their northern neigbours? Who knows.

11) Something called the Vallallus Harvester has been built in the Rhineland.

12) In Iberia the death of Nero seems to have hit them hard. Seems that they were sure that Nero would have got the vote on Latin Rights for them and civilized Gaul through the Senate but following his murder its 50/50 at best. This seems another issue which is being pushed down the line and left for the new Consuls to navigate through the Senate. Or risk having to inform the Iberians and Gauls that their nice new Toga’s with purple stripes and gold rings are wasted.

- With so much of Italy now farmed by slaves the Roman Generals know that too keep the Legions up too strength they need access too the manpower of Iberia and civilized Gaul. That or they need to abandon Britannia and get their five legion back.

- Also if they say no again after Nero seems to have said yes could it trigger a new social war?

Stuart Bailey wrote:

7) Someone – probably painted blue and laughing himself sick in some god forsaken glen on the edge of the world - seems to have jumped the gun in claiming that the Roman Army has lost Cordus and the Guard.  As Cavalry elements of Legion XXIII seem to have found Cordus and the rebels taking rest at Interammia south east of Rome and raided their horse lines.

I just wish to assure everyone that in this wonderfully civilised part of the world, far from the barbaric backwater known as "Rome", we're still too busy laughing at the manner of mourning the death of Nero to be jumping any appropriate bit of Roman artillery...honest

Johntindall wrote:

Roman Army trapped by the Parthians shows off its new design of bolt shooter.

Ad Infinitum for Aprilis 820 has shown up with further accounts of forum gossip and the trials and tribulations of a bunch of spiffing chaps in clean white toga’s with purple stripes as they try and make an honest denerii (from plunder, slave taking and farming…..but never trade) and save the light of civilization from being put out by various Druidic types, horse and camel nomadic raiders, pirates and assorted religious fanatics and traitors employed by the man in slippers and silk PJ’s the so called Parthian King of Kings.

For non players of Rome is Burning here are the election and trial results and other highlights of Aprilis 820 as reported in Ad Infinitum:

I) Aulus Germinus and Gnaeus Corbulo have been elected as consuls for 820. Germinus storming campaign with its promises to crush foes, hold games and generally restore the Glory of Rome powered him both to both victory and position of most admired man in Rome. Corbulo like Germinus also campaigned hard and had advantage of actually being in Rome for the election.

- The other favourite for election to consul the Legate of Germania Minor, Aulus Vitellius did not seem to mount an active campaign and only arrived outside Rome at the end of the
month having crossed the Alps with a couple of Legions to help save Rome from the rebel threat. It is possible that Vitellius like Otha another possible consul decided that elections and travel problems do not mix and to mount their main bids next year after winning some military victories.

II) Senator Piso and Servius Galba were elected as Censors for the next couple of years. Mostly because no one else seemed to want the job which is getting even larger as Consul Germinus campaign promises added Dalmatia and Macedonia to the various other civilized parts looking to be granted full Latin rights.

III) In vote for Pontifex Maximus the Iberian machine of Trajan crushed his rival attacking without mercy his rivals lack of experience and occupation as a lawyer as not suitable for a religious post.

General view is that the elections were free and fair (by Roman standards), with the free food and speeches greatly enjoyed by the voters who went for the contenders willing to stand up and say what they stood for and want to achieve for the good of the people of Rome and its Empire. How much of Germinus ambitious program will be achieved is another matter but the fact that Rome now has legally elected Magistrates again tends to cut the ground from below the feet of rebels, traitors and other Parthian hired help.

IV) On subject of possible rebels, traitors and Parthian hired help. Trial of expected trial of “rebels” trying to usurp the authority of the people of Rome to elect their own magistrates fell a bit flat !! When the Senate declined to try the military rebels Cordus and Aviola unless they were present in person to face the charges. Following last month vote in the Senate, Senator (who some call Emperor) Pomponius was presented in chains but otherwise in very good condition by Legion XXIII and did face some savage speeches in favour of conviction.

But then in a classic case of old boys networking and the Senate being unwilling to convict one of their own Pomponius dropped his claim to be Emperor and the Senate dropped all charges which caused Senator Pomponius to collapse to the floor in relief.

For some this shows that it is now possible to get a free and fair trial before your peers (at least if you are a multi millionaire Senator) which is better than being executed on an Imperial whim. It also saves the new Consuls from having to execute a fellow Senator. But no doubt some carping may be expected from old school Romans and the cheap seats in Corduba about all this clemency being a sign of moral decay and how Cato would never have let Pomponius off.
IV) One reason Pomponius got off was a display of his Clementia by the Prefect Aegypti Gaius C. Tuscus who withdrew threats to hold up Roman grain supplies and pressure on the Senate to convict. The Prefect has also shown his generous and kindly nature by pulling his Cavalry from the outside the royal capital of Aksum without taking revenge for the attack on the south of his province and shown his respect for the probable wishes of his former patron Nero by paying out a bonus of 100 denerii per man and 10,000 to Tribunes to the troops under his command.

Cynics might suggest the Prefect is busy trying to patch up relations with the blocks in the Senate and southern neighbours and improve the morale of his troops because he wants to secure his social promotion and is flustered by piracy in the Red Sea and by events to his north. But I am sure that is not the case and Caius C Tuscus is totally calm and just a really nice man trying to do a good job.

V) On subject of Nero burnt last and final will and how it compared to earlier notes held by the executor. Nero widow is now a bit calmer and was able to confirm that the traditional bequest to the Legions had not been changed so Tuscus over-paid. While troops in Aegypti will not object some other commanders looking for a bit of support for their depleted military pay chests from either the Imperial Treasury or other richer areas like Aegypti might have said a few words.

The Empress also made some Imperial Slaves into Imperial freedmen but was unable to confirm what the final will said about Aegypti and Tuscus social promotion. However, Consul Aulus Germinus victorious election program would seem to support acceptance of Nero original thoughts over the corn dole, Aegypti, Judea etc.

VI) Following failed attempt in Jerusalem to murder him by a Jewish fanatic with a knife. Marcus S. Otho has moved back too the coast. He seems to fully back the wish of Nero that he takes command of the Roman northern flank against Parthia including the currently rebel held province of Asia and is calling on Legion legates to support him. Leaving what he has called the “murderous hellhole of Judea” to Tascus to sort out. Otho being a blue blooded Roman aristo with experience of running nice civilized provinces in Iberia clearly feels his talents will work better on civilized Greek cities who like games and oratory. While Judea and its blood crazed and pro Parthian population can be delegated to his currently social inferior Tascus to sort out.

VII) Unfortunately some of the Legion legates Otho wants to help him crush the revolt in Asia and move to the Roman northern or left flank seem to be a bit busy to actually move since:-.

- At the camp of the badly wounded Gestius Gallus Governor of Syria a messenger from the Jewish High Priest showed up to urge the noble Gallus to declare himself Emperor and revolt against the authority of the Senate and People of Rome in the same way as Cordus and Aviola.

- If the noble Gallus reacted to this vile invite to turn traitor or even if he is well enough to understand the words of dishonour and treachery being dripped in his ear by the messenger of the Parthian lackey sitting in the second Temple is unknown since shortly after the whole camp was cut off by 20,000 plus Parthian Cavalry and Camelry. Team Rome however prays that the Noble Gallus is well enough to nail this vile messenger to a cross and lead his forces against the Parthian foe.

- With Gallas are x5 Roman Legions plus 10,000 Auxilia including 4,000 archers and 4,000 cavalry. In a Roman camp built with the help of 400 expert engineers and reinforced by 250 bolt shooters the Roman force is safe from direct attack. But what is its water and other supply situation like? If the Romans are camped near a good water supply they seem to have the advantage but if they only camped due to to being unable to move their wounded commander and they are forced to retire while being attacked by 14,000 horse archers backed up by 10,000 heavy cavalry and camels then things could get messy.
VIII) In other Eastern events another Roman Merchant ship went missing in the Red Sea and the Alani want payment from the King of Kings sent too the Tent of their Khan before they will move to join the King of Kings hosts. Perhaps getting ready to try and move 2m denerii across the steppe to a bunch of untrustworthy nomads the Parthians seem to be trying to knock out as many Roman agents as possible. But who is working for who is as usual a bit of a mystery.

IX) Back in Italy Consul Aulus Germinus no doubt upset by the brutal murder of his messengers is getting ready to hunt down and smash the rebel guards as top of his things to do list. Various reports however indicate that the rebels are now heading south away from Rome and may look to flee over the sea. With the Uncle of the beloved of Mars & Legate of Moesia, Marcus Aponius Saturninus even working out that if the rebels abandon all of their horses and other heavy equipment they will need 40 merchant ships too escape. Where they will go and what the Roman Navy can do too stop them is a bigger mystery.

X) In more civilized parts it men’s thoughts turned less to war and more to farming with both Iberia and Dalmatia seeing the introduction of new farming machinery and even new farmers. While even in Germinia Minor (not a civilized part) some people seem to be considering draining the flood plains of the Rhine to provide extra farming land. With lower social status but perhaps wiser heads going this is the Rhine not some tame Italian water way – this is never going to work.

- Though it has to be admitted that one of the reasons Trajan seemed so interested in new farming machinery and offering to the Gods of farming was trying to work out if the supply of grain from Aegypti gets delayed due to Jewish revolts in Alexandria, Parthian invasions or for whatever reason. Can increased production from North Africa and Sicily still keep the Roman Army and Navy in supply? The answer to this was yes but Rome and Italy itself would be hit by famine…..Not really the answer the new Pontifex Maximus wanted.

XI) While in really, really civilized parts (well Corduba) they have founded an Academy of Stoic Philosophy to improve the moral fibre and make the young less willing to take Parthian bribes.

XII) Finally in the oddities section of the paper. Tree spirits seem to be eating people in the Balkans. Publius Avitus Pictor one of the most infamous street fighters in the whole of Rome seems to have reinvented himself as a respectable builders merchant on the black sea. And as Trajan’s mum made her way across civilized Gaul to see the her new great grandchild buying up the odd vineyard for her property portfolio on route she was somewhat shocked to find her old friend Titus Vinbius Proconsul of Gallia Narbonensis dining with a man who claims to be Tiberius Claudius Ceasar Britannicus son of the late Emperor Claudius. Naturally she was too polite to say anything about this even though she was in the Rome when Britannicus eat or drank something which did not agree with him and died and later attended his funeral along with most of the Senate.

Well, this game is getting ever more complicated and err Roman?

Regor wrote:Well, this game is getting ever more complicated and err Roman?

And less barbarous, with the departure of Calgacus/Jason2. I think the only player-run barbs remaining are Parthia, and maybe the Frisii and the Roxolani.

Johntindall wrote:

Regor wrote:Well, this game is getting ever more complicated and err Roman?

And less barbarous, with the departure of Calgacus/Jason2. I think the only player-run barbs remaining are Parthia, and maybe the Frisii and the Roxolani.

My feeling is that unless a player has a very inventive mind-set (like Jason 2) it probably gets boring outside of the Empire sat in a wet forest or on the wind swept steppe without much to do and a long way from the centre of the game.

Think if someone wants to play a non Roman position and they are not a military fanatic with a love of light Cavalry tactics and ambitions to become Great Khan or have a love of Early Scottish culture the only Barbarian positions in RIB really worth looking at are Parthia, Armenia, and Dacia.

All of which are fairly rich and civilized positions with varied military options and are closely involved with the trade and culture of the Roman Empire or at least parts of it.

Frankly I believe that this game [for the Empire] is not about “wargaming” but Glory unless you are a legate at the edge of empire and much more about politics and Empire management, sort of “keeping it all together’.

Whereas as a long haired lay-about and part time angry Chief you need to fight your corner with cunning and disrupt the empires ‘momentum’ and can benefit from causing internal unrest before offering battle.

Ad Infinitum for Maius 820 has shown up with further accounts of forum gossip and the trials and tribulations of a bunch of spiffing chaps in clean white toga’s with purple stripes as they try and make an honest denerii (from plunder, slave taking and farming…..but never trade) and save the light of civilization from being put out by various Druidic types, horse and camel nomadic raiders, pirates and assorted religious fanatics and traitors employed by the man in slippers and silk PJ’s the so called Parthian King of Kings.

For non players of Rome is Burning here are the election and trial results and other highlights of Maius (or May) 820 as reported in Ad Infinitum:

I) First the good news – probably due to the blessing of the gods or the shortage of the on the hot tar and drink a bottle of vodka approach found in other games the noble and pious Cestius Gallus seems to have made a full recovery from being stabbed by a perfidious praetorian and has risen from his sick bed to snub the suggestions from the Jewish High Priest that he turns traitor and keen to set set about the Parthian hordes.

Unfortunately he was not up and about in time to stop two legions following the cautious (and sensible if Gallus out of action) orders of Marcus S Otha to fall back into the mighty fortress city of Edessa. When the heroic and non cautious Gallus wanted them to march towards glory and plunge into the heart of Parthian darkness sword in hand.

II) Prince Pacorus and the Parthian field army followed Legion XV Apollinaries and Legion XII Falminata all the way to the gates of Edessa with Parthian horse archers taking a toll at range but even though he outnumbered the small Roman force by over two to one the cowardly prince did not order his men to charge and take on Roman steel at close quarters.

III) With the Parthian field army following a probably accidental “decoy” into the west. Gallus and the rest of his Army marched east and occupied the town of Osroene as their forward base for a possible strike into the heart of darkness. All in all a rather better result than could normally be expected following the “division” of forces in the face of a more mobile enemy.

It would seem that having crossed the desert Gallus now route down the south bank of the Tigris to Seleucia. But what has the King of Kings get left to defend the economic heart of his Empire from Roman fire and Roman steel? Also can the noble Gallus get across the river and into the lair of the beast – the Parthian Capital of Ctesiphon before Pacorus returns from his wild goose chase west?

IV) Legion XI in Sirmium (where’s that?) also followed orders to march off and join Otha. Who seems to now have the job of keeping Pacorus busy and crushing the revolt in Asia – probably sending the head of the traitor Senator Aviola to his ex-wife. However one job he no longer has (unless Aulus Geminus veto’s the proposal) is sorting out Judea. Since the newly elected Consul Corbulo issued an executive order to accept Nero gift of Aegpytus to the Roman people with all of the divine Emperors conditions accepted. Well he was hardly going to turn it down and risk one man even one as well meaning as Trajan getting control of Rome grain supply.

As part of these conditions Otho losses Judea but gains Asia which gives him effective command of the Roman northern flank against Parthia while the problem of sorting out the Judean hell-hole (Marcus S Otha words) now drops into the lap of the now socially promoted Gaius C Tuscus.

V) Apart from the social promotion readers and non readers of Ad Infinitum alike are probably wondering why anyone least of all the sane and sensible prefect of Aegpytus would lobby to have their area of responsibility extended to include Judea. Especially since this month the Sicarii murdered a Roman courier taking a valuable scroll to Senator Plinius and another twenty three Roman citizens which sent thousands of others fleeing over the border to Aegpytus.

It seems that that Tuscas has decided that a great Rome noble like Otha who has spent his career either in Rome or in civilized Iberia being called upon to judge rope dancing competitions or organize chariot races lacks the extensive knowledge and contacts of an old eastern hand like Tuscus. And if Tusus does not want the whole problem blowing up and leading to blood and fire on the streets of Alexandria as rival Jewish and Greek mobs set about each other then he better deal with it at source.

Gladiatorial games were held this month in Alexandria to honour Nero and perhaps as well to keep the Alexandrian mobs mind of events in Judea. Question is are games which wind up the blood lust of the Alexandrian mob really a good move or not in the current circumstances?! Star of the show was Marcellus a Retiarius originally from Italy.

VI) Some good news from Judea but probably not for everyone is that the Parthian General Bardisan and his Bedu mercenaries are reported to have left riding north.

VII) Back in Rome Senator Plinius, he off the missing scroll has become the leader of the largest faction in the Senate which also includes Senator Pomponius keeping his head down in case anyone decides to bring up some of his questionable actions in a legal setting or at the point of a knife. On the subject of knife crime following the murder of Nero and attempts on the life of both Otha and Gallas the Chief Judge has asked all Roman magistrates to make sure they have the correct number of Lictors both to preserve tradition and dignity but also because the chief judge objects to the cost and paperwork involved with mid term elections.

As a firm follower of tradition and never one to upset the Chief Judge the new Pontifex Maximus (Marcus U. Trajan) has made sure he has got his full number of Lictors including employing a couple of the most deadly ex-Gladiators from the Corduba ludus.

VIII) Also in Rome alongside the executive order to accept the gift of Aegpytus. Consul Corbula issued a second executive order for Aulus Vitellius to investigate and sort out why five very expensive Legions are stuck doing not a lot in Britannia. It seems that having inherited a semi failed invasion not from Nero but from the Government before this years Consuls have turned to Rome self proclaimed expert on wet woods and Druids to come up with a plan. Of course Aulus Vitellius can always decline or Consul Geminus could veto but since this proposal was actually voted for by the Roman people when they elected the Consuls that may involve a certain loss of public standing.

IX) As for Consul Geminus his minor focus this month was how much money could be recovered for the treasury is the golden house including solid gold baths is carefully taken down and the cost and time to restore the defences of Rome. Oddly recovery costs are unknown but on Builders Guild figures Rome’s defences will cost at least 18,552,000 denerii and take five years. In theory the Consuls could save money by using Army manpower or slaves but this would not go down at all well with their plebian voters.

In probably famous last words Consul Geminus did say his focus was not on Roman builders but on crushing the rebels and the restoration of security and order to the Republic.

X) In terms of crushing the rebel so called “Emperor” Cordus and the rebel guards the good news for Consul Geminus is the “The chosen of Mars” Lucius A. Saturninus Moesians and the Auxilia Noricum have located the rebels eleven days ride from Rome at Cannae. The bad news if the chosen one of Mars wants to present the head of her husbands killer gift wrapped to the Empress and live up to his reputation with the cult of the war god. Is that Cordus and the guard are on the other side of a river and up hill of the Auxilia who also have the wind blowing hot grit into their faces. Reports do however say the Guard is in a bad state with poor morale so perhaps its a case of nothing ventured nothing gained and faint heart never won fair lady.

XII) The current rebel position is on the river Aufidus about three miles from the sea and it is a common belief that they may seek to avoid the revenge of Geminus for his butchered messengers by trying to flee over the sea. Roman scout ships believed to be loyal to Germinus are keeping watch in the Adriatic on possible groupings of merchant shipping which could transport the rebels. And probably letting them know that any Captain who helps the rebels escape will be cursed by the Pontifex Maximus and will be “Given too the Gods”. (Roman form of being outlawed).

Sailors especially if they are Jews of Christians are unlikely to be bothered by being cursed by Roman Gods. But dire threats to nail people too their own masts without a trial may but up Cordus charter fee’s to a level his Parthian masters no longer wish to pay.

Probably the key factor for any Captain thinking of taking a charter from Cordus is the attitude of the Navy. The Classis Misenatium has already shown it is against the revolt by sending Marines to help defend Rome from the rebels and has got a Squadron to Brundisium to hamper the rebels. But currently the fleet seems to be in confusion over who can be appointed to replace Nero with some saying the Admiral has to be an equestrian with military experience but was Nero an equestrian?

Probably what would be reasonable would be if day to day running of the fleet is left with an experienced equestrian but he is subject to the orders of a consul or dictator if elected.

The worry seems to be the attitude of the Revenna fleet which seems to be getting ready to sail as a single force. But who’s side are they on?

Probably just as well Aulus Vitellius was not elected consul as he gets sea sick crossing the Rhine. The thought of having to take direct command of the fleet in the bay of Naples to conduct a high speed naval pursuit and brace his dodgy knee for a naval battle with ram attacks would probably turn him green.

XIII) Away from Italy and the East while senior Roman senators were away their juniors on the Rhine and the Danube tried to conduct talks with the other bank over various matters and generally lot a lot of lip from uppity Dacians and Germans. London bridge has fallen down but new stone one is now complete so at least Aulus Vitellius will not have to take a small ferry across the Thames. Nothing much else apart from various people moaning about lack of ports and light houses.

A very informative commentary.

Agreed, an excellent summary...just glad no one has invaded Caledonia yet

Jason2 wrote:Agreed, an excellent summary...just glad no one has invaded Caledonia yet

The Consuls special appointee to Britannia "Aulus Vitellius" otherwise known in Londinium as "The Man from Rome" has been commissioned to write a report on if the tour of Britannia by the Legions should be completed with visits to Caledonia and Hibernia. Or if it should be cut short in favour of an alternative solution. Perhaps one which involves a large wall and Caledonia officially shown on Roman maps as having dragon type creatures in large lakes and LBT (lots of bloody trees).

Naturally the Senate has total faith in Rome's most famous expert on wet woods and Druids and will accept any recommendation to invade Caledonia. Though some might want to pull Legions out of Britannia and back to their home bases on the Rhine so other legions can move from Rhine to Danube and from Danube to the East. Where the the Governor of Syria has just marched into the Heart of Darkness with four Legions and various other troops.

Anyone know if the Legion IX Hispania is with Gallas or posed to move north into Caladonia? And why do I have a bad feeling about this?

The good news is the the IX Hispania and various other Legions already have depots in Iberia and if the Senate would just agree to give Latin rights to Iberia the IX Hispania etc can be rebuilt if required. Probably better than before:lol!:

I’m thinking that the players should consider some policies that we can all agree on that the Senate can vote into law and we can prioritise them so that Rome is not challenged everywhere at once.

There is a Legion in Italy who would love to fight to recover its honour in Caledonia but there are other Legions being sent to Syria making this an unlikely trip.

BTW I am impresses with Agema changing the SL rules thanks to the poll here (and possibly other player views). GJ Richard.

My suggestions for Roman hegemony would be: Remove the Guard. Tackle the other pretender. Support Tuscus and so confirm the grain supply and relieve pressure in Judea. Keep the Danube and Rhine calm and let’s take a breath with the Parthians. If they push forwards let’s do as Belisariaus did somewhat later let them come to the end of their supply lines and knock them back hard?

Also can the Empress veto the Senate? I dont think so yet the House failed to kick off when she “vetoed” the decision to audit the Golden House. When (If?) it gets stripped to fund other items surely it would be better to have an idea of the value to prevent the workmen’ making off with bonus items?

Lastly let’s think on to next years elections and how we can continue this outbreak of Roman civility!

Caio!

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Jason2 wrote:Agreed, an excellent summary...just glad no one has invaded Caledonia yet

The Consuls special appointee to Britannia "Aulus Vitellius" otherwise known in Londinium as "The Man from Rome" has been commissioned to write a report  on if the tour of Britannia by the Legions should be completed with visits to Caledonia and Hibernia.  Or if it should be cut short in favour of an alternative solution.  Perhaps one which involves a large wall and Caledonia officially shown on Roman maps as having dragon type creatures in large lakes and LBT (lots of bloody trees).

Naturally the Senate has total faith in Rome's most famous expert on wet woods and Druids and will accept any recommendation to invade Caledonia.  Though some might want to pull Legions out of Britannia and back to their home bases on the Rhine so other legions can move from Rhine to Danube and from Danube to the East.  Where the the Governor of Syria has just marched into the Heart of Darkness with four Legions and various other troops.

Anyone know if the Legion IX Hispania is with Gallas or posed to move north into Caladonia?  And why do I have a bad feeling about this?

The good news is the the IX Hispania and various other Legions already have depots in Iberia and if the Senate would just agree to give Latin rights to Iberia the IX Hispania etc can be rebuilt if required.  Probably better than before:lol!:    

Surely Stuart is it not time for Rome to consider Option C? Withdrawing from the whole of Britannia and handing it over to the nice, cuddly, friendly and not-at-all "Death to all Romans" Caledonians? In return for a British force who aid the Romans as allies? Think Riothamus a few hundred years early, without the most likely wiping out of his army?

Be creative! Think outside the box! Win friends and go and massacre other enemies of Rome!

Regor wrote:There is a Legion in Italy who would love to fight to recover its honour in Caledonia but there are other Legions being sent to Syria making this an unlikely trip.

You want to send several thousand blokes who wear to what are all intents and purposes mini-skirts to the land of the blood-sucking midges? You want them to be bitten there? Sounds a way to inspire a mutiny in the Legions..."there is no way I'm going to let a gnat bite my family jewels!"

Jason2 wrote:

Regor wrote:There is a Legion in Italy who would love to fight to recover its honour in Caledonia but there are other Legions being sent to Syria making this an unlikely trip.

You want to send several thousand blokes who wear to what are all intents and purposes mini-skirts to the land of the blood-sucking midges?  You want them to be bitten there?  Sounds a way to inspire a mutiny in the Legions..."there is no way I'm going to let a gnat bite my family jewels!"

This and many other issues will be considered by the commission lead by Aulus Vitellius - Rome's self proclaimed resident expert on all things wet, woody and painted blue who is to prepare a report on what to do about a problem called Britannia.

Even though it would seem from both some monuments and the Vindolanda tablets that 1st Century Roman soldiers sometimes wore breeches under their tunics. It is even possible that after his long experience in Germany that Aulus Vitellius may recommend the Roman Army take up the wearing of trousers to protect the family jewels from midge bites (only two centuries earlier than we have proof that they actually did.....but I doubt if artists painting heroic Roman soldiers spent much time on the northern frontier compared to looking at classical models).

Regor wrote:I’m thinking that the players should consider some policies that we can all agree on that the Senate can vote into law and we can prioritise them so that Rome is not challenged everywhere at once.

There is a Legion in Italy who would love to fight to recover its honour in Caledonia but there are other Legions being sent to Syria making this an unlikely trip.

BTW I am impresses with Agema changing the SL rules thanks to the poll here (and possibly other player views). GJ Richard.

My suggestions for Roman hegemony would be: Remove the Guard. Tackle the other pretender. Support Tuscus and so confirm the grain supply and relieve pressure in Judea. Keep the Danube and Rhine calm and let’s take a breath with the Parthians. If they push forwards let’s do as Belisariaus did somewhat later let them come to the end of their supply lines and knock them back hard?

Also can the Empress veto the Senate? I dont think so yet the House failed to kick off when she “vetoed” the decision to audit the Golden House. When (If?) it gets stripped to fund other items surely it would be better to have an idea of the value to prevent the workmen’ making off with bonus items?

Lastly let’s think on to next years elections and how we can continue this outbreak of Roman civility!

Caio!

1) It should be noted that the Senate is the advisory council of the state which existed to advise and give counsel to magistrates.and has no actual power to pass legeslation in its own right. Though it should be pointed out that magistrates could have charges brought against them once their period in office ended and would be tried before the Senate so probably unwise to upset them if possible. Also if a magistrate really, really upset the Senate its members do have past form ref murdering the odd magistrate like Julius Caesar and the Gracchus brothers.

The official powers of the Senate are too:-

- Discussion (and restriction) of any new legislation before it was proposed as a decree to the assemblies. In game terms would say this means that in the Senate (Agema) really objects to legislation put forward by the consul they need to go away and re-write it.

- Revision of the list of candidates for magesterial office. So no players standing for offices they do not hold the correct social rank for !!

- Suspension of ordinary law in times of emergency. Effectly then can declare martial law.

- Control of finances, taxation and state religion. So in game terms Consuls will need to get the Senate to agree too increased or new taxation (and the answer is no). Likewise Governors who increase tax levels in their provinces and generally oppress the locals for profit can be charged before the Senate for exceeding their authority. This was pretty common but since almost all Governors were Senators and most did it to a degree it was very rare to be convicted unless you were really unpopular or so excessive in your tax demands that you caused a revolt. Ref Religion this normally involved agreeing to funny eastern cults being allowed into Rome or banned from it.

- Management of provinces and foreign affairs. Most provinces were managed by Senators (Egypt being the major exception) and oddly it seems that Governors and other Magistrates like the Consuls and lower down could start a war without reference too Rome and the Senate though if you lost it expect to be charged with exceeding your authority. However if you want a formal treaty with a foreign power to end the war or for other purposes this needs the Senate to agree to it. In theory what this means for Barbarian players is that if you are being roughed up by local Roman commanders and unable to come to a gentlemens agreement, you can always sent your job diplomat off to the Senate in Rome with a large chest of gold for gifts/bribes and see it the Senate will call the dogs off.

2) As for our newly elected Consuls their main duties are:-

- To take the auspices

- Command the army and navy

- They used to have control of civil and criminal jurisdiction but as Rome expanded this was ceded to the praetors (Judges). The highest ranked of these was the Praetor Urbanus who dealt with cases between citizens and became the Chief Magistrate in Rome if the Consuls left the city on campaign etc. Prators could command armies and ex-praetors like ex-consuls could go on to govern provinces. In fact was at least one of the positions of Consul taken by Augustus or a family member ex Praetors became more common than ex Consuls as Governors of Provinces.

- Summon and act as Chairman over the Senate or Assemblies.

- Issue edicts and proclamations. Basically the power to make new laws, declare war on someone, etc, etc, etc. Basically you have the powers of the old Kings of Rome or very like a modern President of the USA. Only you are surposed to listen to the advise of the Senate who control the purse strings and can if really pissed off beat you to death (sort of like impeachment). Only your period of office is only a year and its a daul Kingship (like Sparta) and your college can cancel your edicts so in theory you both have a veto over actions of the other. To stop it getting silly generally consuls stood as pairs on an agreed program and agreed to split responsibilities. So it was usual for one to go on campaign while other looked after affairs in Rome. Thus when Augustus rather bent the rules for him to be elected year after year (as well as holding offices of Dictator for Life and Censor etc) his junior Consul was normally a experienced military commander who he trusted like Agrippa or Tiberious sent off to firefight problems like Pirates cutting the grain supply to Rome or some idiot getting himself and three legions wiped out.

3) The Empress being a female is not even a Roman Citizen - she has no authority to veto anything. Only seemingly the power of large amounts of Julio-Claudian wealth and the ability to wrap any NPC male round her little finger and make him do what she wants.


Think the key question for the current player consul after his current term of office is does be get himself Pro-consul authority to complete the conquest of Dacia his original ambition. Or does he end up taking one for the team and take up Syria as his next post after its existing governor has vanished into the East with four Legions.

As for other players who want to stand in next years election. I will vote for the man with the best program, the best games and the best record of killing Barbarians - happy to accept Calidionians, Dacians, Parthians and Dacians as being equal but not sure if the rest of the electors will think killing the Blue Boys have same worth as a Parthian Knight or the Germans who enslaved 24,000 Citizens. Nice to see civility and proper elections in RIB

If anyone is at a lose end in late June and in need of some possible inspiration for their Roman Character they might like to look at a visit to the Chalke Valley History festival down in Wiltshire.

I have just picked up some tickets for the 28th June which include Have just got some tickets for the Chalke Valley History festival which include PAX: WAR AND PEACE IN ROME’S GOLDEN AGE by Tom Holland and DON MCCULLIN: JOURNEYS ACROSS ROMAN ASIA MINOR. Though other days and loads of other periods are also covered though nothing in 2023 seems to be very close to the Glori period.

Having just glanced at the latest paper for RIB I think some of us of going to need a bit of reassurance that Rome is about to enter its golden age and the Legions are at peak professionalism and ability as :-

1) 810 mostly dismounted and knackered rebel horse somehow found new mounts (thats going to cost someone a lot!) and stopped 4500 Cavalry and 6000 Infantry from the Dancian Legions from crossing a river at Cannae which is a couple of feet deep at most and in military terms at the famous battle on this site was basically important as a water source and allowing people to cool their feet. Normal Roman tactics for an opposed river crossing would be to cross with foot at best crossing point to pin hostile attention and send Cavalry to outflank (swimming if required) as per Battle of Medway and all the way back to battles against Pyrrhus? Hell these troops are used to the Danube not some stream in Italy so what went wrong is a mystery.

But probably due to the Guard Cavalry having divine protection from the Chaos Gods and 20 points of plot armour because someone decided to insult the High Priest of Rome in the Senate. That guy is asking to be hit by a lightning bolt!

2) Its not clear if this rear guard action by the rebel horse was to allow the so called "Emperor" Cordus and the rebel Guard to get a months head start or gain some rest in Cannae. Sadly this is not known because after swinging west to cover Naples and outflank the Guard the Rhine Lagions decided to march along the North side of the River and into the Roman Camp rather than continue with their outflanking move south of the river and crashing into Cannae and the left flank of at least the Rebel horse even if Cordus has done a runner.

Oh hum as the Consul did not show up untill the end of the month perhaps everyone was just being really polite and not starting the battle proper without him. No doubt when he does win the godless one in the Senate who insulted the Gods by insulting the High Priest will propose a thiumph and will need to have it explained that you can not have a Triumph for a victory over Romans.

3) With Cordus and the Guard perhaps doing a runner abroad someone gave the Navy including the Squadron at Brundisium orders to drill.

4) Meanwhile out East the Noble Gov of Syria with a clear road to the water source of the Tigris and the loot and plunder of the unwalled (?) metropolis of Seleucia decided to divert to Nisibis which is a very strongly fortified (with double town walls and deep moat) Camel stop in a arid area. Were people complained about shortage of trees to build siege towers and battering rams.

Odd that troops who have spent so long in the middle east have not already noticed the lack of trees other than date palms which are pretty rubbish for building anything. Lots of rocks and earth and 40,000 spades/picks carried by Legions so usual solution in East would be to start digging to fill up moats and through up siege ramps or you mine. Any wood needed for shoreing etc......rip down some houses. Good grief what would these people do if they had to take Masada or Jerusalem?

Kind of worrying when the only troops who have preformed anything like as could be expected of 1st Century Roman professionals are the Rebel Guard Cavalry. Seems that players thinking highly trained and well equiped Roman Legions officied by educated men who can read maps and the best tactical manuals will be vastly kinder and easier on their commanders than C18 Glori forces pissed by breakfast may have underestimated the malicious nature of the Chaos Gods on Mount Agema.

Looks like its back to SIMPLE, DIRECT & BRUTAL

Stuart Bailey wrote:Seems that players thinking highly trained and well equiped Roman Legions officied by educated men who can read maps and the best tactical manuals will be vastly kinder and easier on their commanders...  may have underestimated the malicious nature of the Chaos Gods on Mount Agema.

Indeed.

Even a well-designed game with a great premise like this one can lead to excessive frustration instead of enjoyment if setbacks and disappointments are too frequent, or perceived as arbitrary or unbalanced.

Seems the Guard is going to be a tough nut to crack

After all 810 Roman Guard cavalry (who seem to have, been found remounts, recovered from High Sickness levels & low Morale all whilst marching to the coast) drove off 10,500 Roman Trained Auxiliaries, across the shallow river (which seems to have become a major obstacle.) Odds of 12:1 were obviously not high enough.

Luckily the Rhine Legions didn't cross the River higher up & march down the southern side, they would no doubt have made contact with the Infantry of the Guard & if the performance of the Cavalry of the Guard is used as a benchmark then the Danube & Rhine Legions had a lucky escape.