Game 10

I agree that the Spanish player would have probably been better of ruling quickly and by fiat. Richard may be able to actually get to something like the war of spanish succession if this keeps up. There are competing claims on all the Spanish holdings, and historically this is when the empire lost a lot of them...

Deacon wrote:
I agree that the Spanish player would have probably been better of ruling quickly and by fiat. Richard may be able to actually get to something like the war of spanish succession if this keeps up. There are competing claims on all the Spanish holdings, and historically this is when the empire lost a lot of them...

What I find interesting about the G10 Spanish succession at the moment is that with the total lack of decision making/leadership from Madrid and the question of the new King being left up in the air the major powers like England, UDP and to a lesser extent France & Austria have not made any real moves and minor powers are taking advantage of the situation either by direct action ie Savoy grabbing control of Milan or by lobbying of NPC potential Kings to obtain positions in the Empire of the dec'd Carlos II such as the Doge of Genoa being appointed Viceroy of Naples.

This most of these seem to have got positions from the Duc of Anjou (AKA Philip of Spain, King Philip of Naples, Philip Duke of Flanders etc) Madrid would seem to have a option of making Philip King of Spain and trying to work with his appointments.......running the Spanish Empire a bit like the Sultan runs the Ottoman Empire. Or it crowns Charles Hapsburg and uses Military force to reclaim Milan etc which could trigger something like the War of the Spanish Succession.

Think the situation on Flanders is most interesting with two men claiming the position:

- Lt-Governor Marquis de Bedmar is claiming that he is proxy governor for the Elector of Bavaria appointed to post by ?????? and acting for King ??????

- Philippe d'Orleans menber of the house of Bourbon related to Louis XIX, the Duke of Lorraine & Philip of Anjou who appointed him Viceroy of Flanders. A Prince of the Blood and also a drinking partner of Bart, Forbin & the Trouin brothers.

Its very odd that all hell has not broken out over Milan but its starting to look like the pressure is now mounting in other places.

Anyone offering odds on where it kicks off first? Spain? Naples? Milan? Mexico? or Flanders?

Well, I can see some real-world sense in farming out the empire's management. Spain is a large, expensive position to run (in real world money). Still, wouldn't be my choice.

I also think that Spain's actions suggest that it doesn't quite grasp that a regent's hold on power is far more tenuous than a king's. A king is a king regardless of whether people like him and his actions. If the nobles cease to like Portocarro's actions he could find himself without a job and Spain could be rudderless.

I like your summing up Deacon, an excellent summary of the situation and the problems

Of course, if any Spanish faction would like to offer Scotland the chance to govern one of their provinces...

I am sure if King Phillipe is successful he could find somewhere for the Scots.

Basileus wrote:I am sure if King Phillipe is successful he could find somewhere for the Scots.

What about the Falkland Islands & Tierra Del Fuego.......cold, windy and the sheep outnumber the people. The Scots should feel right at home.

However, before the new King of Spain in G10 (who ever he is) starts on granting minor British positions additional posts in the Spanish Empire.....a word of warning from G7:

Faced with the rule of a max of 4 Military Changes per month Madrid was finding it hard (down right impossible) to arrange defences for its minor African colonies from those nasty pirates who pinched Church Silver & kidnapped Archbishops.

So on the basis of "set a thief to catch a thief" it gave the HWIC frigates and a budget of recruits & cash and appointed their Director-General Viceroy of Spanish Africa.

The monoply had gone in favour of free trade but basically the HWIC was running the Asiento and had a really good position in the America's trade.

In theory the govt in London should have been delighted that its merchants were doing so well. Unfortunately, I think the London Govt's did not see it this way thought the HWIC was going "native" and since then has been really nasty to the HWIC which has been driven into exile.

I can't imagine trying to run spain with limited military change orders. There is so much work organizing defenses across the empire.

Deacon wrote:
I can't imagine trying to run spain with limited military change orders. There is so much work organizing defenses across the empire.

I don't think I could play the game these days with limited mc orders.

It slows everything up so much. It was not too bad years ago when they were used, as I was new to lgdr. Nowadays life in general has a quicker pace to it. We want things to happen much quicker. Can you imagine trying yo go to war with two big nations and only 4 orders each turn.? Impossible.

And they're off! The Ents are going to war. Sorry, Rozwi.

I wanted to celebrate this with a few suitable gif images, the nearest I could find was concerning the Zulus...

...Whomever made these certainly knows their military history! [there's two pieces of information given in the video image - both, err, suspect]

I had no trouble playing Spain in game 3 but it does require some planning; I even invaded Japan and Formosa. The Spanish player is in a difficult position but whoever is crowned King of Spain will have to take a back seat and Portocarrero will rule. Intervention in Milan is probably some time in the future as it will be difficult for any player, other than France and Savoy, to get their armies in position for a campaign during 1701.

Hapsburg wrote:I had no trouble playing Spain in game 3 but it does require some planning; I even invaded Japan and Formosa. The Spanish player is in a difficult position but whoever is crowned King of Spain will have to take a back seat and Portocarrero will rule. Intervention in Milan is probably some time in the future as it will be difficult for any player, other than France and Savoy, to get their armies in position for a campaign during 1701.

Think the lack of clear role models like Peter the Great, Louis XIV, Frederick the Great, its huge geographic spread plus the varity of possible problems and options makes Spain one of the more challenging but also interesting positions in Glori.

For the actual running of the position I dont think it makes much difference if you run things via ministers with the King in the background or run things as a active King.

It also does not make much difference if the King is Hapsburg or Bourbon apart from the fact that the decision tends to declare to the world who you view as allies and potential foes.

For this reason and because Spanish players worry they may be told what to do by Paris or Vienna some Spanish players look for a third option with "miracle babies" and the like. My view is that Paris & Vienna can tell you what to do until they are blue in the face but you only have to do what you want.......through if you are playing a Hapsburg & the Turks are at the gates of Vienna or a Bourbon and the English march on Paris your honour may come under pressure to do something.

But this works both ways and if a Prince of the Royal House is under pressure both Paris & Vienna will come under pressure to save you. And it has to be said Spain more than any other of the major powers needs allies.

In terms of income, grain, recruits etc a well run Spanish Empire is fully the equal of any of the other major powers.......but compared to powers like France, Russia its a geographic nightmare which in many ways plays more like running 7 medium/small positions rather than one very large one.

Thus on paper you have more troops and ships than Austria, UDP, England etc but if Austria marches into Milan, UDP into Flanders, England into Florida etc guess who is going to be outnumbered without allies?

G10 seems to be offering up a fairly good copy of the issues and problems faced by the Historic Spanish ministers in the 1690's in that G10 France is clearly the best ally in terms of offering actual physical support to Spain. It is also the power most likely to get really upset if its Princes claims are rejected.

But does a Bourbon on the throne of Spain come with too much baggage and too many enemies???????????

G10 now awaits the burial of Carlos II & the decision of the Spanish Ministers.........Only hope they do not keep everyone waiting much longer or the funerial service is going to see half the attendee's passing out due to the smell.

How do you work out Spain has the equel recruits to huge nations, such as France, Russia, Moghul.?

Are you incliuding native recruits.? These are far inferior to European and Eastern troops and you cannot have large numbers of Natives stationed in your home nation. The population would not stand for it.

So i would disagree when you say. " in terms of grain,income,recruits ect a well run Spain is the equal of powers like France, Russia ect."

They are all very differant. Spain can generate more income, via gold ect than the others but Spain is lacking in quality useable recruits compared to others. Native recruits are not the same in my book as they cannot be realisticly used in your home nation.

As the French royal line in this, the imprisonement of the true King (best claim) does not put the court at Versailles in a positive frame of mind. It seems as if the Portocarrero player must have committed for war, so be it, and let slip the dogs of war.

jamesbond007 wrote:How do you work out Spain has the equel recruits to huge nations, such as France, Russia, Moghul.?

Are you incliuding native recruits.? These are far inferior to European and Eastern troops and you cannot have large numbers of Natives stationed in your home nation. The population would not stand for it.

So i would disagree when you say. " in terms of grain,income,recruits ect a well run Spain is the equal of powers like France, Russia ect."

They are all very differant. Spain can generate more income, via gold ect than the others but Spain is lacking in quality useable recruits compared to others. Native recruits are not the same in my book as they cannot be realisticly used in your home nation.

Having experience of Spain & several other positions which have their population split between different territories, different languages and different religions I can confirm that in game you only get one lot of "recruits" in the home country rather lots of small batches of recruits in lots of different places:

ie "Spanish" recruits all start in Spain rather than being spread around Naples, Milan, Flanders, Cuba, Hispaniola, Spain etc. While "English" recruits start in England and are not split up into Irish Speaking Catholic's, Welsh speakers, American Colonials, Protestant refugee's etc, & "Austrians" are not split up into German speaking, Hungarian speaking, Croats, Serbs etc etc. I assume this top down approach means easier book keeping for Agema.

It also means that if you are a Spanish player who wants to send additional troops to Milan or a French player who wants to send additional troops to Canada then you need to send recruits or units from your home territory. Even if in theory some of your recruits came from these places in the first place.

When they have troops in place some players will be happy to leave them as 10 F 20 D 10 H 5eH etc. Others may like to add some local colour by having local commanders even uniforms different to the home country.

If you say this approach over values the recruit numbers & European Military Power of Portugal, Spain and the UDP due to their large colonial populations and undervalues France with its large, united population all speaking the same language I would probably agree with you. But to try and put values on particular types of recruits in this period is not possible.......almost all armies and navies were made up of a majority of pressed men, men trying to avoid debt or stravation, deserters from other armies, ex convicts and slaves loyal only to their army pay chests as well as some bold and adverterous spirits. Lead of a professional class of Officers who were very often foreign and just as likely to change service as their men.

If quality of recruits matter greatly one really has to wonder about the military rise of Prussia......a Army raised from the absolute dregs from across the whole of Europe

Basileus wrote:As the French royal line in this, the imprisonement of the true King (best claim) does not put the court at Versailles in a positive frame of mind. It seems as if the Portocarrero player must have committed for war, so be it, and let slip the dogs of war.

Have not seen latest issue of G10 but from this post mean that the bounder, false priest and cad Cardinal Portocarrero has just locked the Duc of Anjou up:affraid: ?????

Shock, horror, probe........G10 is getting more like scabble all of the time! Where is Flashman when he is needed? (What about a Jacobite NPC.......Col Thomas Flashman as aide and guide to the Prince of Wales?)

Look on the bright side if Portocarrero does execute the Duc of Anjou the true Bourbon heir (throgh his mother) is actually the Duc of Anjou's father who only waived his claim to the Spanish Throne to avoid problems with being heir to Throne of France as well. But in circumstances if the Grand Douphin pushes his claim to save Spain from treason and murder who could have even a little objection?

I think a lot of things in game are simplified. It's a game and it needs to be playable. We could drown in too much historical accuracy. I have read several books on the period's taxation that make my head spin. I'm glad it's simplified!

Spain, in game, doesn't seem to have as much regionalism as it had historically. Other nations, particularly some of the non-europeans ones, seem to have a better starting position than I think they historically ought to as well. But then, they probably wouldn't be playable, so think that is necessary for the game.

I also don't think native recruits are that bad and can do a lot of things. You just have to be aware of historical context. Using a bunch of 'colored people' to crew your ships or for your infantry (with spanish officers) should be fine. You'll probably want to train the troops in language and make sure they're well drilled, so more time to get them up to speed. But otherwise adequate. 'colored people' as doctors, lawyers, judges and tax collectors is likely to greatly upset your people.


But back to game 10. Things are continuing to devolve in Madrid. If anybody wants to have a serious go, I'd suggest trying to take one of the pretenders as a position and see if you can win Spain :-). Seriously considering some dubious questionable birth over one of the hapsburgs is a dangerous game...

It was in the previous month that King Phillipe was placed under house arrest by Portocarrero.

And this month he has vanished from said house....

Deacon wrote:And this month he has vanished from said house....

And the good news is that in one heroic bound our "Hero" is back in France.........leaveing his mistress lost in Spain being "comforted" by the other legitimate heir to the dec'd Carlos II.......Charles von Hapsburg.

I only hope Philip of Anjou in G10 does not turn into another Bismarck in scabble.  I have lost count of the number of mistresses that character has lost.

The bad news for both the heirs in G10 is that the Spanish Royal Council has ignored all the best legal and religious advise and has decided to Crown Rodrigo de Abello, Vizconde de Banderas as the next King of Spain seemingly on the grounds that the Vizconde is simple and needs continual care by his mother who may have once been in the same room as Carlos II.

Oddly the Kingdom of Naples has just been hit by a earthquake.......does this reflect divine (or even Agema) opinion of playing fast and lose with C18 succession laws to a Catholic fief?

According to Marian Ferdinand Estabar nothing must ruin our happiness at the news that Rodrigo de Abello is to be new King of Spain.  Wonder if news that both the mortally insulted Royal Houses of Hapsburg & Bourbon have declared war and consider him a traitor will spoil his happiness?  Mind you it may take a few months for the Emperor and Louis XIV to get over the shock.

Oh, sod the Spanish throne...

It's Trouin's party that we're all interested in

I too found the earthquake odd since I thought those only happened if you had an EH 1. I can imagine the Spanish honour has tanked, but why would it's EH?

I will be curious what France and Austria do. Choosing some guy with no legitimate claim to the throne because it's convenient over your kin? Austria, for instance, has a much greater claim on Milan than some random Spaniard.

Picking some guy's name out of a hat to be king isn't right, after all " You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" Or in this case a couple of guys pointed at you and said, hey, you're it.

Stirring the point, I know, but I think it needs a bit of stirring.

Jason wrote:Oh, sod the Spanish throne...

It's Trouin's party that we're all interested in

Must have been a damn fine party since Trouin is now higher in the honour table than that famous party lover.....The Lord President of Scotland:

Mind you after toasting Philip of Anjou, etc, etc, etc in a mixture of Rum, Red Wine and Calvados drunk out of ladies thigh boots the French Navy Officer Corp is effectively out of action and memory of the party is bit vague.

All in all you have to feel for the French King's player in G10 .......your Grandson picking up a marginally respectable mistress and concerns about Naval discipline going to hell in a hand cart are not usual in game concerns for Louis XIV.

But perhaps if it does all kick off in G10 Louis XIV ministers will be able to send off their letters of marque with the thought: "I dont know what they do to the enemy but they scare me"

At my next party, I shall make sure there are a few ladies from Dundee present then...

At least I don't have enough of a navy to make this a problem

And to change the subject completely, am a bit surprised to see how well I'm doing in Maritime Trade

I think you're all missing the most important occurrence during the last turn.

The game map of Africa has been updated!  

You can all read about my character's future exploits, as he enjoys some hanky-panky at Wankie. Possibly.

The member 'Rozwi_Game10' has done the following action : Dices roll

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#1 'Duel' :

#1 Result : 1

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#2 'Duel' :

#2 Result : 4

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#3 'Duel' :

#3 Result : 5