Game 10

Well. I won't be pressing that button ever again!

Gentlemen,
I hope it isn't too late, but if any of you still have time in your busy schedules & still haven't sent of G10 turns I would be extremely grateful if you could give me any background in game info,

I have tried to get a rough idea from the paper & the thread as to who is active, & have been busily badgering away trying to get letters sent off to all & sundry, I apologise in advance to anyone I may have inadvertently missed.

If as I say you have time energy & inclination please drop the Dutch a line in the coming turn.
I hope in time the complaints about Holland not answering letters will be forgotten.

Thanking you all in advance.

A most important piece of information gleaned from the Newspaper is that Scotland's Lord Melville likes to drink Whisky. So if any Dutch dignitaries do attend one of his speeches, they'd best have acquired a taste of the drink beforehand.

Reports of Scotland's Maritime trade being based on Whisky exports are yet to be confirmed. But I'm sure that if Lord Melville stopped keeping the best stuff for himself, Scotland would be Number 1 in the Maritime Trade Listings  

J Flower wrote:Gentlemen,
I hope it isn't too late, but if any of you still have time in your busy schedules & still haven't sent of G10 turns I would be extremely grateful if you could give me any background in game info,

I have tried to get a rough idea from the paper & the thread as to who is active, & have been busily badgering away trying to get letters sent off to all & sundry, I apologise in advance to anyone I may have inadvertently  missed.

If as I say you have time energy & inclination please drop the Dutch a line in the coming turn.
I hope in time the complaints about Holland not answering letters will be forgotten.

Thanking you all in advance.

Hi Jason and welcome to G10,

I think G10 is a good game for a world wide trade power such as the Dutch which probably wants to enter into friendly and diplomatic relations with with its many trade partners around the Globe.

Think some back papers will be more informative than this tread which tends to be a bit focused on Western European Diplomacy and Strange events in Southern Africa.  Basically think of this tread compared to Mercurius Politicus a as the News of the World compared to the Financial Times.  So in the Paper the intensive diplomacy beteen the Shogun and the Osaka Rice brokers and the Great Moghul and other Indian Princes get reported on intensively.  While in the thread this seems to get ignored in favour of Witchcraft, wild Parties and what is basically a family row over who gets what from Uncle Carlos inheritance.  Basically this thread is a scandal rag......I blame the Scots.

Putting on by Amsterdam merchants hat I think your merchants would report roughly as follow's on the markets.

1) Key Baltic market is looking good......No one has been invaded!  And Sweden, Poland, Saxony all very active and looking to expand their Trade, Farming and Industry.  They clearly need Dutch help with dredgers, Engineering and the like.  Russia under Czar Peter seems oddly quite.

2) Far East & India are also looking good with strong stable governments and the Shogan, & Great Moghul will probably be happy to talk.  A worry here is that due to a failure of Dutch Diplamacy the Shogan has in recent years turned to the French Finance for help with his new Bank etc and he has allowed the French as well as the Dutch to trade with Nippon.

3) America's......colonial rivals Spain, Portugal, France, England all active but being very polite.  Piracy seems to be at a all time low! (but see later).

4) Eastern Levant.......Ottomans, Persians all oddly quite.  A very active and organized Venice plus other Italian States like Tuscany, Genoa and Savoy seem to be main trade rivals/partners as well as usual suspects.  Possible "Bad Boy" of the area is the Duke of Savoy who has taken control of the great Hapsburg Duchy of Milan.

The fact that this event has not caused a massive war to spoil our Italian markets is evidence of ?????? (sorry do not have a clue).

5) Africa.........messages on the Jungle Drums arriving in our Cape Colony talk of the rise of a Great Chief of the Rozwi and of possible war's of conquest.  Its possible that chief is Pro Portugal?  Or Pro Omani?  Do we need to send someone North to find out what the hell is going on?  Or send reinforcements to Cape Colony?

France and Portugal also seem active in Africa.

6) British Isles.......our fellow "Williamite" Govts in England and Scotland are both active, able and organized but worried by Jacobite Propaganda.........nothing new there then.

7)  In other parts of Western Europe trade is still good but we need to deal with :

- Portugal.......a historic rival but seems like a nice sane Govt is in charge.

- Spain........another historic rival, currently sulking about Milan and having a succession crisis.  In effort to avoid upsetting either the Bourbons or the Hapsburgs.  Spain seems to have decided to ignore normal laws of succession and have a local as King,  this may however have the effect of offending both Hapsburg's and Bourbons and god knows how Flanders & Naples will react to this decision.  If it does go ahead it would seem to play into the hands of the Duke of Savoy since a very bad claim to Milan is better than no claim at all.

- The Holy Roman Emperor.......see Portugal above.  We probably need to talk to him about trade and is he going to start a War which could hurt our trade (assume he is annoyed about events in Milan and Spain).
 
- France.......In his old age Louis XIV seems to be trying to turn himself its Europe's kindly Elder Statesman while keeping a twinkle in his eye for the Ladies.  The problem with this open Court policy is who is taking advanatage:

a) Jacobites (Romantic but wrong)

b) Savoy (A very bad man)

c) Genoa (?)

d) Forbin, Bart & the Trouin brothers etc...........no wonder Piracy is at a all time low, most of the French Corsairs are currently at court playing Cards with the Duchess of Artois, sitting on Royal Commissions & trade Company boards and lobbying French Ministers.  But if Louis XIV ever gets the Letter's of Marque out again its probably going to be horrible!

We may not like them very much but its probably important for our Peace & Trade to re-open talks with the French esp after the Duke of Savoy & the Spanish took our agreed partition treaty and threw it in the bin!

Of possible interest was the draft of Carlos II will published in the Mercurius and seemingly ignored by all.  Now all the legal heirs have been disinherited in favour of a B*******D they may be more interested.  The will left Spain (and vast majority of its colonies) & Milan to Charles von Hapsburg while Philip of Anjou got Naples and Flanders.

Not unlike our original treaty but it a) Puts a French Prince on our southern border and b) Gives the 2nd son of the Emperor the Duchy of Milan (currently occupied by Savoy).

If as seems likely Louis XIV pushes his Grandson's claim to Flanders what about our Barrier Fortresses?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In conclusion its all great for the UDP trade and Industry apart from our Home Area.  At some stage we need to consider moving to somewhere like Cape Town or the East Indies.

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:A most important piece of information gleaned from the Newspaper is that Scotland's Lord Melville likes to drink Whisky. So if any Dutch dignitaries do attend one of his speeches, they'd best have acquired a taste of the drink beforehand.

Reports of Scotland's Maritime trade being based on Whisky exports are yet to be confirmed. But I'm sure that if Lord Melville stopped keeping the best stuff for himself, Scotland would be Number 1 in the Maritime Trade Listings  

The Dutch on the other hand have just developed Gin while some of the great French Wine Houses, Spanish Sherry and with English Help Portugese Port's are in their early days.

Could we see Scots-Dutch Whisky Wars in the Baltic? And people showing political feeling by what they drink?

But what the hell do the Rozwi drink? Will Dutch gin heading north from the cape run into a tide of Chief Special Brew date palm beer heading south? Or will Thomas Blake Glover be able to build a distillery in Rozwi and spread Scots culture ahread of the vile Gin invader from the South?

Stuart Bailey wrote:
But what the hell do the Rozwi drink?

Probably home-brew beer, chief ingredient being Mealie-Maize.

The culinary arts of the Rozwi will be looked into in the future. Probably taking a leaf out of Shaka's book and asking neighbouring tribal countries to send cooks, so they can teach the locals about new foods and ingredients.

Scotsman, Dutchman & Frenchman. get captured by the Rozwi in Africa, Chief tells them they must go into the bush & collect berries for the cooking pot. First back is the Scot he has a basket full of Blackberries.

Chief orders him to lower his trousers & tells him if he doesn't laugh he can go free, chief then gets his head cook to "stuff" the berries into the Scot. Who bravely accepts his fate. The basket is emptied & the chief keeps his word & frees the Scot.

Next up is the Dutchman, he brings a basket of Strawberries once again trousers down & the process is repeated, just before the last strawberry is pushed in the Dutchman bursts out laughing. The chief orders him immediately to be put in the cooking pot.

As he is led away the Scots man looks at him & says " you must be daft, one more strawberry & you were free!"

The Dutchman replied "I know, but I just saw the Frenchman, he's got a basket full of Coconuts....."

Been looking into Gin distilling apparently it is a development of a Herbal MEDICINE, so watch out Africa here we come, maybe via India to pick up the tonic water.

J Flower wrote:Been looking into Gin distilling apparently it is a development of a Herbal MEDICINE, so watch out Africa here we come, maybe via India to pick up the tonic water.

Gosh, just think as the UDP..... Jason will be able to send his Yacht Squadrons to India to pick up the tonic and Africa to swap 20,000 Square miles for a bottle of gin........with a fair chance that they will not sink in force 2 winds or get lost and have to eat the cabin boy.

How is he going to cope with the shock of crack crews and captain who may know how to read a map?

Or will force of habit limit the Dutch Navy to the Zider Zee and the re-issue of standing orders:

1) Always have the pointy bit at the front.

2) All ships crew to wear water wings at all times esp in the Bath.

It's going to be a whole new experience having a Navy that has maps, maybe I can get my Admirals to promise not to get their ships sunk, may have to check they haven't gotten their fingers crossed behind their backs.

Down side is if they don't sink then I have to pay them, saved a lot of money when my Navy(s) sank. Isn't that the whole idea of a sinking fund, or have I misunderstood the rule book

Maybe we could look at a joint trade venture? Gin-whisky cocktails?

And just to correct Stuart, Scotland does not worry about the Jacobites...we in the Scottish government love them, no we really do. I mean they have done wonders for the Williamite cause here...firstly ignoring us then trying to win us over by telling us William is acting in an un-English way...

Eventually the Jacobites will be and , but for now they are certainly causing quite a

Interesting that the House of Stuart coat of arms contains the Fleur D'Lys, as well because there is a claim (going back to Edward the third of England) for the House of Stuart on the French Throne as well. It will probably never happen in LGDR simply because the Jacobite player is too afraid to bite the hand that feeds him, plus France has a way to cause various English players problems, without actually having too do a lot.

Any Jacobite player who actually succeeds to the Golden Goal of the throne of England, is then faced with the "Test Act" which bans Catholics from the throne, yes this can be overturned, but then there is the Church of England to be dealt with & Parliament, both of which throw various boulders in the path of a Jacobite player. If they are lucky they get support from other Catholic states, but that alienates both Parliament & Church of England, not to mention the populous in general.

The player is also fighting against history & the (subconscious?) bias of other players, it is known to have failed, the history books tell us that, plus many of the English speaking players are I suspect C.o.E so adding a little more bias to the scales.

The Jacobite position is possibly one of the hardest to play in game, you are initially reliant on the good will of other players to get you started, then it is a long uphill slog to get anywhere, with lots of chances for other players/positions to pull the carpet out from under your feet.

Maybe the French option is one worth exploring, would it give the house of Stuart the means to achieve it's in game aim?

In fact what is the Jacobite in game aim?

I doubt there'd be too much bias against 'English' Catholic positions by British players, to be honest. State Religion and Christianity as a whole is pretty much a thing of the past in most peoples every day lives, nowadays, in the UK. Maybe the UK players of games such as TGOK might buck that trend? But the CoE, the Catholic Church and the churches in N.I., Scotland and Wales are pretty much in harmony, as far as I know, and members of their communities aren't at odds with each other (well, maybe accepting N.I. and some areas of Scotland) so I'd doubt they'd have any natural feelings of biasness that would materialise in the game. But I'm speaking as an English non-practising Christian, so maybe I'm totally in the wrong?

Its quite an interesting point, now I consider it. And obviously most players will probably play in period character anyway.

Thanks for that, I guess I wasn't trying to question anyone's religious convictions, more trying to make the point that the Jacobite position is one with a certain set of hurdles that must be overcome before there is even a glimmer of hope of success.

Yes I guess we all try to play in period & in Character sometimes as well, but the very point you make about the religious harmony that is fortunately seen as the Norm today hadn't been achieved 200 years ago.

The War on Heresy in France for example in 1680's, Dragonades in the Languedoc. Wholesale conversion of Calvinists. Under the Edict of Nantes Reformed religion was banned, children had to be educated in the Catholic faith.

Something that then was perfectly acceptable but is unthinkable today.

Playing England without those biases that existed in the 18th century would certainly place one's honour score in the basement and hand it a shovel to begin digging. In 1700 the counter reformation is just beginning to cool off somewhat so the hostile attitudes in the two western houses of Christiandom would certainly be very acute.

Religion was probably ( personal opinion) more important than Nationalism, most states at the time were really only just starting their journey to a National identity, many were still a patchwork of territories & provinces controlled by a ruler, Central government was still in it's infancy. Whereas the Church had had centuries to hone it's unifying role. This may have given the church or religion in general a more important role in the day to day lives of people, much more so than is the case with a lot of people today.

I concur... Nationalism, with some exceptions, really didn't become and issue of import until we get to the time covered by SFE. It has been rather interesting to watch the Bismark become a drunken tuba player with a thing for nuns rather than the nationalist that he was. I guess it is part of what makes that world so interesting!

I'm lucky that, as Rozwi, I've not had any run ins with the religious types within the Empire.

It'll be quite amusing when it does happen ... "You want what building? A sacred grove. A secluded kraal for unspeakable initiation rites. Yearly public gatherings to 'smell out' any witches. The burial site of my father to be made holy and off-limits, guarded day and night and totally under your jurisdiction. Pieces of our conquered enemy's tribal totem idols taken and combined with our own, to absorb the strength of those we've vanquished."

I don't think I'll be worrying about church or cathedral building

revvaughan wrote:I concur... Nationalism, with some exceptions, really didn't become and issue of import until we get to the time covered by SFE.  It has been rather interesting to watch the Bismark become a drunken tuba player with a thing for nuns rather than the nationalist that he was.  I guess it is part of what makes that world so interesting!

In SFE its noticeable that the Brits leave nasty outburst's of "Nationalirm" to French, Germans, Russians, Chin etc.

And Lord Derby, Lord Hardinge, Mr Farnworth and Col Flashman & the Tea Cartel Chaps are much too nice and politie to inform lesser breeds without the law & cricket who is actually the Superior Nation.

If anyone of wit and flare wants to save the World & North America from having their Children taken and forced to play cricket & drink tea they need to ask Richard if France or one of the American positions is still on offer since to date the counter Cultural attractions of Tuba playing and zee Sausages are not really working. While Black Bread & Vodka as mother used to make it seems to have strictly local attraction.

Lord Derby and his merry band making sure the world is peaceful by making sure the world is British. Well that is at least in the way of trade. The nasty side of the British system are rather hidden, but it does seem that there are some that will most assuredly made it quite public in 1859. At least that is the talk at #10!

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:I'm lucky that, as Rozwi, I've not had any run ins with the religious types within the Empire.

It'll be quite amusing when it does happen ... "You want what building? A sacred grove. A secluded kraal for unspeakable initiation rites. Yearly public gatherings to 'smell out' any witches. The burial site of my father to be made holy and off-limits, guarded day and night and totally under your jurisdiction. Pieces of our conquered enemy's tribal totem idols taken and combined with our own, to absorb the strength of those we've vanquished."

I don't think I'll be worrying about church or cathedral building

What about those Ivory towers everyone seems to go on about?

Must surely be better than boring stone circles or pyramids

J Flower wrote:
What about those Ivory towers everyone seems to go on about?

Just had a Eureka moment thanks to your comment. I've got a definite, solid idea what to do with my religion in the game and how it can be tied in with historic fact. Not ivory...But stone.

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:

J Flower wrote:
What about those Ivory towers everyone seems to go on about?

Just had a Eureka moment thanks to your comment. I've got a definite, solid idea what to do with my religion in the game and how it can be tied in with historic fact. Not ivory...But stone.

What about a nice stone circle? Plus the man who finds the special bean in his stew gets to be chief for a years and a day?

There is a disused stone circle on Salisbury Plain in South West England, Hasn't been used for a while, but I'm sure if you contact the English Government you can come to a reasonable trade, maybe swap for all that shiny yellow metal that is really not any good for making spears.....