Game 10

Think its fairly safe to think G10 Spain has or had a new player.

The only thing I would say is that there are "Challenging" positions to take on and then there is G10 Spain.

I am not saying that the position is broken since Spain is still a wealthy postion (Note who was 2nd in Levant trade in last Mercurius list) with plenty of recuits etc but:

- A famine
- X3 possible Kings
- What to do about semi self appointed Viceroys in Madrid, Milan, Flanders who are clearly not following orders
- The commons are beating up Govt messengers and having a riot
- EH is shot (probably due to famine and the riots)
- I am not saying the head of your Govt and Church is unpopular but the Pope refuses to be in the same room has him and most people think he is a traitor and a witch inc most of the neighbours.

Some players have taken on rather less problomatic positions, taken a look and said to Richard "You know I said I would like a challenging and involved position..........can I have one a little less so like a Jacobite, Hungarian Rebel, Blackbeard or a Wako Lord.

Personally I do not see the problem with having to burning your own Character for Witchcraft & Treason. A good burning has got to be worth more than yet another masked ball:D

I think the most sensible answer is for the mystery Spanish player to decide the old world is dead; secretly mass his armies and fleets, along with their families and the treasury.  Then one day board every ship he has, basically say "so long and thanks for all the bullfights" and head for Spanish South America to create a New Spain there.

Jason wrote:I think the most sensible answer is for the mystery Spanish player to decide the old world is dead; secretly mass his armies and fleets, along with their families and the treasury.  Then one day board every ship he has, basically say "so long and thanks for all the bullfights" and head for Spanish South America to create a New Spain there.

Well if anyone taking over Spain does not fancy all the fun & games of crushing "rebel" Viceroys in Italy and Flanders.

The other alternative is would be the "Ottoman" or "Polish" version of the Spanish Empire with:

NPC King/Sultan (Philip of Anjou)

PC: Chief Royal Advisor/Grand Vizier of Spain (direct control of Spain & America's etc)
PC: Pasha of Naples
PC: Pasha of Milan
PC: Pasha of Flanders

Think this would actually be closer to how the Spanish Empire was actually run historically esp under very week Kings like Carlos II. Philip of Anjou is a odd one in that he seems to have been what is now known as bi-polar and could have great bursts of energy and drive followed by periods of depression when he would not even speak to his ministers let alone give them orders. He also seems to have relied a lot on his wives both of whom were Italians (with Italian advisors) as well as French advisors. Which did not always go down well with the Old Spanish Nobility.

Some players will no doubt hate this type of set up and will want to run everything in "their" Empire but having a bit of "devolution" might well suit a player who likes diplomacy and is more interested in Trade & Colonial development in the America's than the difference between siege warfare in Flanders & Italy (The Flanders version is a lot wetter). Plus its a lot cheaper in terms of real money to run if other people are building canals, roads, etc, etc in Italy.

Anyone fancy a sort of super Portugal position? Or HRE with colonies?

Maybe the Spanish position needs at least another active player to function properly having a Viceroy in the Americas would certainly ease the strain both mentally & financially.

Still maybe the peace conference will give a different out come with the position getting penny -packeted out to all & sundry, so that Spanish player gets left with the city of Madrid & a small Olive tree Orchard in Italy which is a vassal to the Pope.

Now Pope has said that he wants to take control of Italy I wonder who will back him will he look to Vienna/ Paris to drive the French/ Austrians out of Papal Italy or France, so he can set about unifying Italy under the Papal banner.

I can attest from game 8, that Spain is a big position, and expensive in real world costs to run if you're really going to try to manage all the colonies.

I think you could farm parts of the position out, but it might be hard to find players who would agree to pay their own money to run something they can be booted out of...

The country of France seems like its benefitted from 2+ players controlling French positions in Game 10.

- King of France (running France)
- French Corsairs (running various bits and bobs / doing their own thing)
- Jacobites in Exile (adding another aspect into the mix - though, possibly, now a vacant position?)
- then there's the numerous sub-characters popping up in the newspaper, adding to the story and bringing new schemes into play.

Having the 'United Kingdom' in Game 10 split up into a group of positions (currently agreeing to work together as a team, it seems) appears to also be working well.

- United Dutch Province (as King)
- England
- Scotland

So maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea for Spain, either in this Game or in future games, to be managed by a team (though, probably, best if such a group are experienced players - and if Forum members - know who is who, so there is an added level of trust and understanding?)

Anyway, that's just my two pence worth [oh. its a cherry. i thought is was a comedy bomb. bugger]

I don't think the Jacobites have been played in any recent games, have they?

Game 10's 1700 game year was filled with their antics. Especially the young Prince of Wales - until he fell off his horse.

I assumed it was a position in play in Game 10.

But then again, I don't know who you play (if you play in Game 10) - so it might just be yourself, being sneaky and quiet, lulling England into a false sense of security before mounting an invasion!

I played the Jacobites a bit in game 7 before I had to drop. Good and crazy times. Not really that interested in a repeat.

I do think if anybody wants to try it, they should think about picking the position up AFTER the Spanish Succession is resolved. To make a go of the position, you really will need notable support from the big Catholic powers, and they aren't going to pay attention to you while Spain is in play.

Deacon wrote:
I played the Jacobites a bit in game 7 before I had to drop. Good and crazy times. Not really that interested in a repeat.

I do think if anybody wants to try it, they should think about picking the position up AFTER the Spanish Succession is resolved. To make a go of the position, you really will need notable support from the big Catholic powers, and they aren't going to pay attention to you while Spain is in play.

We have still got loads of Jacobites in G7!!.......King James Stuart has a fairly good grip on England and Ireland having done away with the Bank of England, sold the American colonies to Russia to raise some cash & get rid of a load of bloshy Puritan types, turned Parliament into a club for elderly Jacobites who need somewhere to take a nap, executed or driven into exile most of the people who do not agree with him inc King William & the Directors of the HWIC, and has Lord Godolphin and the Anglican Bishops trained sit, beg, roll over and play dead etc.

Currently his Britannic Majesty is trying to get the Scots to agree to bishops and the devine right of Kings but for some reason they have been "difficult" about the matter. King James blames the outside meddling of the Dutch & the House of Hapsburg. Who may have been a bit upset when King James chopped the heads of King William....AKA Stadtholder of the UDP & Prince Eugine of Savoy......some people can be so unreasonable over the smallest matter!).

The good news for the Jacobites is that their friend King Louis seems to have got the Hapsburgs and Dutch to stop "meddling" and King James can now get on with slaughtering Scots & Whigs again:D

The White Rose would seem to be well and truely blooming in G7 but it has had received quite a bit of help from France & Russia and even more from some really strange English Governments.

Oh yes, I had intended a more middle of the road King James. I had gotten as far as getting the prime minister replaced when I had to drop.

The new king james has gone full autocrat. More power to the player. It's a much tougher road, but there is some personal satisfaction, no doubt, in burning parliament to the ground and turning the remains into a park for yourself.

Deacon wrote:
Oh yes, I had intended a more middle of the road King James. I had gotten as far as getting the prime minister replaced when I had to drop.

The new king james has gone full autocrat.  More power to the player. It's a much tougher road, but there is some personal satisfaction, no doubt, in burning parliament to the ground and turning the remains into a park for yourself.

Though to be fair, a more middle of the road James might not be bogged down in a war of attrition with haggis

True. My plan had been to sever the crown from the church of england and allow the bishops to elect the head of the church who would have to be signed off on by the king, and to move towards free religion.

I thought it was a plan that might work politically and diplomatically so I wouldn't be endlessly beholden to French troops. It would provide a path to reintegrate all the English holdings without letting religion be the key fracture line.

But, as an American, if one of my options was to burn congress to the ground, it would be very, VERY hard for me to not take that option... :D

The Rozwi Indaba - The Voice of Africa

* ON THE MARCH
Halting from the day's march, servants and attendants rushed to make ready the camp ground for the Changamire.
Water was brought forth from the stream close by, a hollowed out gourd offered to His Highness as he stood and
waited for the tasks completion.

"Wingombi," Changamire Dombo spoke to the Chief stood at his side, "Not long now till the lions are among
the gazelle. Then we will have some fun, won't we?"

Wingombi grunted agreement. "Our sources bring us news regularly. We have eyes reporting what they see
and the knowledge is pleasing, iNkosi."

The Changamire nodded in satisfaction, as his eyes roved over the guards set to protect his own area of the
camp site. Chief Lobengula Torwa entered the guarded ring, offered his salute to his ruler and reported.

"iNkosi," Lobengula began, riders from the Snake Eagle Regiment have returned. Today they had no important news,
so I ordered them to water and food before they came to you to report. Lwazi is with them, he and his Fish Eagles are
questioning them on the ground we will face tomorrow. Today, no further fireloques were found among the hunters of
these lands."

Changamire Dombo gave a pleased nod and told Chief Lobengula that he had done right. "These muskets they
buy from the Arab traders from the coast, they are not as reliable as the ones the Portuguese use, are they?" Both
Chiefs agreed. "A skilled hunter may benefit from such a weapon, but our regiments would not. Muskets are cumbersome
and need lit fire to make work, in a mist they fail. What use are they in anything other than perfect conditions. It is
impossible to even make two shots with muskets before we are upon the enemy with our spears. And the
veterans of my royal father's army tell that great waggons are needed to carry powder and shot when the
Whites use their muskets in war. Look at this land, try to drag the White Man's waggons through here and you
would get nowhere. And how would an ambush succeed if one of these muskets fired too soon - such weapons
are no match for our spears."

By now the servants and attendants had finished setting the Changamire's camp, his sleeping mat carrier came and
squatted at the heels of His Majesty. The youth now took up his position and took the empty water gourd from Dombo's
hand. The Changamire's shield attendant still stood behind his ruler, holding the cured hide shield aloft and shading the
Changamire from the last of the day's heat.

The two clan chiefs were silent for several minutes as they waited upon the Changamire. Finally, His Majesty spoke:
"Not long now. Then we will run amongst these unsuspecting prey. By the time the enemy raises its warbands the
days will be long and too hot to fight for long periods of time. We will be rested and ready. By then we will know where
to lay our traps and surprises, where to ambush and where to retreat back to while dragging the tired enemy in long
pursuit behind us. The pride of hunting lions will change to become like the stalking leopard - cunning and quick, stealthy
and deadly. First we capture Maung, then we bring the enemy out to battle. And crush them!"

* BINGA
Following his announcement by the Rozwi ambassador Mufaro Gezi, Chief Sanchez of the Indabade entered
into the presence of King Chewa Akani of Tonga, and after making his salutations and offered well wishes of the
Changamire, Chief Sanchez had this to say: "Changamire Dombo has decreed Tonga traders will now pay 5% tax
in Rozwi lands. This is as agreed with your royal self. Rozwi now awaits the lowering of taxes against our traders.
The Changamire then wishes to enter trade dealings with Tonga, to supply slaves to Rozwi."

Chief Sanchez paused a moment before continuing, drawing out the moment and waiting for the gathered
councillors to show signs of anticipation to what he next had to say. However, in this interim he was informed
that tariffs against Rozwi traders in Tonga have been reduced to 5% from 10%.

He then spoke again. "Changamire Dombo now leads an army of invasion into Ovambo lands. He means
to take those lands and the people that sit on Rozwi's border and bring them into the Karange Empire.
At the outcome of the successful campaign the Changamire wishes to meet with Princess Amanaki, to that
end I will escort the Princess to Khami - as you granted permission for me to do so, previously."

It was agreed this was so.

"It is the Changamire's wish that King Chewa Akani and his chiefs do not fear an invasion from Rozwi. The
Changamire wishes peaceful dealings between Rozwi and Tonga."

* CAPETOWN
"Now see here, Mister Dongo," Gouverneur Generaal van der Kaap Kolonie, Simon van de Stel, declared while
pointing out across the bay to the frigate laying at anchor. "Here, sir, we have the fine ship 'Theodor', just arrived
from across the ocean from Batavia."

Mutumwa Dongo, Rozwi's ambassador to the Dutch Cape Colony quickly conferred with one of his companions,
both bouncing the Dutch into rapid translations of Bantu, Khoikhoi and the Khoisan languages. That done, both
gave the governor disinterested looks.

Seeing that Dutch naval advances were beyond the Africans, the tour continued around the settlement.
"Here we have various farming implements for use in the fields; spades, hoes, ploughs." Seeing that this
was more to the Africans liking, van Stel went on, "This, here, is a hammer, and lying over there are some nails."

Mutumwa launched into excited gesticulations, and spoke in harsh tones and with physical strikes aimed at an
ignorant youngster who had picked up the hammer and proceeded to bash nails into the dry ground as if he was
breaking nutshells between two stones.

"Yes, nails." Van Stel quickly moved the party on, aiming the group towards armed soldiers at rest nearby.

"This, here, is what we call a firelock." Taking the musket, van Stel passed the firearm to Mutumwa, who, showing
no interest, passed it onto his companion, who quickly pushed it into the hands of the untried youth, who then
proceeded to gaze down the barrel.

Seeing what was about to happen, van Stel reached out before the fool blew his own brains out. He managed to
grasp the gun but yanked it too late. When the smoke cleared the youth was on the floor, unhurt but clearly terrified.
Mutumwa and his companion set to beating the foolish youth who curled into a ball under the unleashing of his
latest punishment.

Simon van Stel picked himself up after having dived to safety to avoid the musket ball, saying to himself as he did;
"I think we'll leave the cannons out of the tour, for now...."

* INHAMBANE
The Dutch diplomat Eric van d'Linden has reached Inhambane on the coast.

"There is always something new out of Africa"

Meanwhile Lord Melville has once again supported the Whisky industry

And the Spanish Succession issue continues, surely we need someone to step in and explain it all......

A minor correction: Emperor Leopold is still in Venice and King Joseph Hapsburg is in Rome. Too many Hapsburgs active at the same time

Seems Spanish Empire is on special offer at the moment, Philip seems to be collecting a Province every month, I suppose conquest by instalment is a viable option.

Appears, no one actually wants, the Famine ridden, Economically bankrupt, Faction driven Country of The Kingdom of Spain itself.

Austria probably doesn't want Spain because it is too much bother to build a navy & protect it & controlling an Empire that covers a fifth of the globe is too strenuous.

France probably doesn't want Spain because he realises this could be like a red rag to the Maritime powers who would see it as a threat to trade & colonies & may just cause a little war.

Austria is convinced its security lies in the fact that it needs the Italian Duchies of Northern Italy as a buffer against French attacks into Southern Germany & its core provinces across the Alps.

France is convinced its security lies in the fact that it needs the Italian Duchies of Northern Italy as a buffer against Austrian attacks into Southern France & it's core provinces across the Alps.

Will France abandon it's allies in Italy? Will Austria abandon its allies in Italy?

Expect ink is still drying on letters of Marque issued by Paris against Venetian ice cream vendors.

Probably End up with Pope controlling Northern Italy to stop a war there & Rodrigo being put back on the throne of Spain simply because no one else wants it. Especially as Agema now seems to be chairing the talks in Rome. Or will the Jacobites be re- settled in Spain, after all James has some kinging experience & a government in exile ready to take up the challenge of Spain, probably actually got as good a claim to the throne as Rodrigo at least.

Hapsburg wrote:A minor correction: Emperor Leopold is still in Venice and King Joseph Hapsburg is in Rome. Too many Hapsburgs active at the same time

Having problem with too many Hapsburgs.......want your Spanish Succession problem cured in two simple sword thrusts......who are you going to call?

Jokes aside is it really wise to have both of the heirs to the Holy Roman Empire, Kingdom of Hungary and the Archduchy of Austria wondering round Italy at the same time as masters of the dark arts such as Cardinal Portocarrero, Venice and Savoy?

I mean if something happens we could end up with a War of the Austrian Succession and honest seafarers being blamed for things which are nothing to do with them

PS On subject of honest seafarers.  Ref comments Jason Flowers comments about letters of marque......with the legal basis of priveteering under ever closer investigation honest seafarers probably want any letters of marque against piractical ice cream vendors to not only have dry ink but also to be nicely blotted and stamped with the correct French Royal Seals.  But subject to the issue of the correct paperwork and to paraphase the Doge of Venice....."Cry Havoic and let loose the dogs of aggressive defence"

I am often frustrated by this game, but only rarely completely baffled.

I am baffled.

As royal steward of Poland, I said some snarky things about Spain and the questionable birth, so I figured the only christian thing to do was to try help peace along rather than just lobbing grenados.

So I offer to host a peace conference, try to get the key players together, see if they want to come to some agreement. We don't have a dog in this fight as they say, so we'll try, but really up to the key players. Agree or don't. I've done my best, but it isn't in my control so I'm not going to sweat it.

Except this turn I am told that the peace conference I called in Rome is being run by the Saxon ambassador, with whom I have NO relationship! The ambassador I appointed to run this tells me he isn't in charge. While I guess you can draw some nebulous lines between me and the saxon ambassador, I am completely flummoxed that my ambassador has been sidelined and some strange person has co-opted the peace effort.

As a player, I really don't know what to make of this. I have no idea how my ambassador can be sidelined in the conference that I convened after consulting with the pope.

I am going to leave it alone, since my last several turns have been much more expensive in real money, mostly from working on a problem that has no impact upon my position however it comes out. I am happy enough to pass it off to some NPC and reduce my turn fees. (this is an example of my other post where my, the player's, interests and the position diverge. I don't want to pay a lot more turn fees for stuff that doesn't really impact me. My prince would likely disagree with his player's assessment of this!)

Anyway, maybe one of the major factions asked for it. Maybe it is Richard's mysterious hand at work. Maybe it is one of the endless strange cockups that seem to surface in the game.

Feel free to speculate, or tell me why the answer is obvious, but since I don't even know how to process this in-character, I thought I'd mention it here and let the involved players draw their own conclusions. I'm stepping back and letting the process play out without paying more of my turn fees.

Ah, so that's who is playing as the Royal Steward of Poland. And the player on top spot of the Honour rankings.

1702 is the year of the Rozwi ... and Changamire Dombo II wants to claim top spot. Be warned!



I'd best do plenty of to gather rpg story-line research and re-watch my Shaka Zulu dvds

Deacon - I think view it as part of a complex political world at the moment. I can tell you that my position (France) has not undertaken any subterfuge in this, but others in my faction may have. In the end the Spanish Succession is not critical to Poland, but the way you were playing was winning you a high honour score.

Whilst not following exact historical lines I feel that this Spanish Succession is playing out reasonably realistically with skirmishing taking place on the edges of Spanish territory (Naples) and in this game lots of players involved.

You could ask the ,Pope , the Austrians and the French why the Ambassador changed or indeed your Ambassador himself .You could flounce out the negotiations in a huff , once it has started , of course .You could demand compensation for your efforts . ...I would demand Sardinia for this outrageous slur on the Most honourable Steward of Poland .

Thelittleemperor wrote:You could ask the ,Pope , the Austrians and the French why the Ambassador changed or indeed your Ambassador himself .You could flounce out the negotiations in a huff , once it has started , of course .You could demand compensation for your efforts . ...I would demand Sardinia  for this outrageous slur on the Most honourable Steward of Poland .

Since the Elector of Saxony is also King of Poland I suspect its a mix up.......or Agema showing respect for the social convention that a King's envoy outranks the envoy of his Steward.

From a Bourbon point of view its probably bad news and perhaps a reason to flounce out in a huff since a Protestant Saxon (member of the Empire) is unlikely to put as much weight as a Cathoilic Pole on the opinion of the Pope that the Duc of Anjou has the best claim.

Considering some of the results of going to a "conference" settlement in the past inc:

- Ottomans ending up with Milan when they wanted Venice in G2. Did anyone look at a Map? What did the King of Spain do to his envoy on finding out the idiot has surrendered his beloved Duchy to help a bankrupt, Dec'd & NPC Doge of Venice? Even worse result when you consider the Bourbons had lost close to 100,000 troops plus many of their best Generals to defend Milan. Indeed the King himself had to cut his way out of Milan just before it surrendered.

- Also the last time anyone allowed the Poles to act as peace makers - The G7 Treaty of Warsaw:drunken:
Generally considered to be Agema's finest ever "screwed up treaty".

If Polish Agema NPC's can draw up this treaty covering an area & issues they may have a reasonable understanding off, just think what they can do to the inheritence of Carlos II?! Be scared, be very, very scared.

One of my whole points in calling the conference was that it was NOT an Agema Peace conference. No treaty would be foisted off on anybody. If parties couldn't come to agreement, they could walk. I would be annoyed if this stopped being true. I hope it isn't, and I think any player would have plenty of cause to complain (as a player) and repudiate any treaty as a character.

But, the possibility that this is sort of what is happening is why I brought it up. Does Richard think that any time you use the word "peace conference" that he gets to roll the dice and determine what happens? I wouldn't think so, but I've been wrong in the game before.

My best guess is that your explanation for why the Saxon ambassador has taken over the conference is right, though it still doesn't make much sense.