Game 10

The Poles are proposing a peace conference in Rome, so I think that may well give a Spanish player a way forward and some breathing room.

Deacon wrote:The Poles are proposing a peace conference in Rome, so I think that may well give a Spanish player a way forward and some breathing room.

Ask the Russians & the Swedes (G7) about what happens if you allow the Poles to organize a Peace conference!

Based on results of the treaty of Warsaw I suspect Aragon would go to Charles, Leon to Philip and Castile to Rodger.
With future rulers of the seperate Spanish Kingdoms being elected by the Cortez's on the Polish Model !

Not sure G10 is quite ready for a Spanish-Italian-Flanders Commonwealth.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Deacon wrote:The Poles are proposing a peace conference in Rome, so I think that may well give a Spanish player a way forward and some breathing room.

Ask the Russians & the Swedes (G7) about what happens if you allow the Poles to organize a Peace conference!

Based on results of the treaty of Warsaw I suspect Aragon would go to Charles, Leon to Philip and Castile to Rodger.
With future rulers of the seperate Spanish Kingdoms being elected by the Cortez's on the Polish Model !

Not sure G10 is quite ready for a Spanish-Italian-Flanders Commonwealth.

 

AGEMA peace conferences and player ones aren't the same. If you sign up for an AGEMA one, you get what you get.

In a player one, you sign the treaty or you don't. You aren't required to accept the terms. You negotiate, or not, on what you want, and if the players involved don't agree, they don't agree.

The idea of a player initiative peace conference is probably Spain's best bet initially if nothing else it gives them some breathing space to try & disentangle their current position & try & make sense of what is going on,

Good luck to the Steward of Poland I hope it all works out, probably the first major hurdle will be getting all the antagonists into same place at the same time. After that it will probably get easier.

Ha! Game 8's turn reply has just hit the email in-box and I've not even looked at Game 10's next turn orders, which have to be sent in in a few days time. Best get busy this weekend.

Good Luck. I finished mine weeks ago. I prefer to do it when it's fresh, and then just hit send. If I leave it around, I get too many more ideas and my turn ends up bloating up!

Ah well, if I'm being honest. I read it all on arrival (weeks ago, now). Jotted down what I need to do, so its just properly constructing the turn orders and writing various letters to other players. Last turn saw a lot of 'setting the wheels turning', so this turn is just keeping it simple and allowing Richard to continue on what's already started. Hopefully.

On that I'm with you. Letters are always the hardest part for me. Always end up finishing them last.

Find letters take the most time & thought but personally also feel they are still the most important part of the game & bring the most enjoyment.

In case anyone is now thinking I'm one of the reasons why the turn-around is so slow, I email in the replies the day before the return date. I could get Rozwi's turn replies done within a week, if needed - but the cost of playing more would be the killer for me.

Back to playing the game. I'm finding letter writing the easiest thing to do, so far. As those who've received letters from me in Game 10 know, I combine pigeon-English and dodgy grammar to try and role play the communicating that is being conducted in (supposedly) dictated and translated, and probably translated again, form [Bantu - to Swahili/Portuguese - to whatever]. I've even started having fun with my correspondence, writing in the character of a ship-wrecked European who is in very ill health and manages to slip in his own, personal, passages of speech when nobody's looking. I might have to create him as a character in the future, should I build his profile up enough in my letters.

Completely agree, it's letters that take the time though if I were really honest, it's 21st C that gives me more issues.

If life is going well and not falling apart around my ears, I can get turns done since and quick, letters are easy to write...end of the day, sit down with a beer or glass off wine and knock out six letters...if things are complicated then well even writing a short letter takes a lot of time

Generally do letters first and orders fairly last minute.

Sorry to G10 players who had to wade through rather long and rambling message from the Corsairs. I would like to blame Characters drinking a mix of rum, brandy & wine or me going in for "method" role playing:drunken: . But its probably down to me using letters I write as a way of getting own thoughts into line! And currently G10 is rather confused!

Actually managed to do G10 orders early this turn due to going up to Edinburgh for the festival. Also had a look round the Jacobite Exhibition at the National Museum of Scotland which some of you may enjoy.

I like the Nstional Museum of Scotland but suggest you take iron rations & a ball of wool in with you since its design is clearly inspired by the maze on Crete!

May I suggest the book " English as She is Spoke " to Rozwi .A Portuguese guide to English from French translations .

It was apparently all the rage at one point. I'd heard that this very, very, VERY bad dictionary was the genesis of the Monty Python "My hovercraft is full of eels" skit.

Thanks for that thelittleemperor, I wasn't aware of the books existence ... or the possibilities available in the game.

Jason. Expect a letter, in game, asking for your Scottish chap to learn Portuguese and then Rozwi-Bantu so he can write an advice book on how to communicate proper-like to the Savage Heathens. The Changamire's orders and all that. I might have to employ my own (the unfortunate shipwrecked soul) Francois Grande in such an endeavour, too - though he'll have to survive the Sangoma's healthcare, first, to make him be as right as rain.

The Rozwi Indaba - The Voice of Africa

December 1701 and not a lot is being reported as happening in the Continent. As will be seen, the Wali of Egypt proves that its a case of misnomer as he sounds anything but a wally. The Rozwi continue to discover the benefits of trading things for money instead of shiny seashells and coloured feathers - while one of their armies is reported as marching somewhere, with the leader of the nation acting as commander-in-chief, it seems. The Rozwi government and military still struggle with the Anglicised names given them by the Changamire, and secretly wish for unpronouncable and difficult to write African tribal job titles. In a daring act of financial gamble, the Dutch open a trade mission in their own Cape colony. Will it survive the hostile local market? Or is the editor of this publication just being sarky?!

Cairo: Count Ravenelli was welcomed by the Wali of Egypt, who offered to provide Savoy with 150,000 tons of grain for 450,000 ashrafis, including delivery to Nice. Ravenelli immediately agreed to purchase 100,000 tons (for 300,000 ashrafis).

Also at Cairo, Leonardo Bruni of Genoa has informed the Wali that 'our crisis has been resolved', but thanked him for his kind attention. His Excellency then asked if Qurah Pasha would be interested in discussing a trade treaty between Genoa and Egypt?

Khami: The newly appointed Rozwi minister of trade has reduced tariffs levied against Tonga merchants from 10% to 5%, and on Dutch traders from 10% to 0%.

On The March: Changamire Dombo II of the Rozwi has praised Lwazi of the Fish Eagle Regiment for his 'honesty and courage'. "In this instance you were correct in ignoring the order," the Changamire informed him.

Capetown: The United Provinces has opened a trade mission.

"There is always something new out of Africa"

Meanwhile here in Scotland we're partying, drinking whisky and promoting saving on firewood by burning witches instead...

Yeah, there was a lot of discussion about witch craft and devil worshipping being said in Europe this last turn. Makes the rest of the world look positively enlightened!

December 1701 Mercius Politics has shown and for the enlightenment of non players in G10 I think I should point out that things are happening which have nothing to do with Africa or Witch Craft & no one has actually been convicted or burnt by the Holy Inquesition (yet). So if non players are interested in the non African boring bitas here are the highlights:

1) Speaking ex-cathedra Pope Clement confirmed that in Catholic Canon Law "King" Rodrigo of Spain has no claim and should abdicate his claim. The Pope then confirmed that Philippe de Bourbon, Duke of Anjou has the stronger claim amongst the Legitimate heirs & that the Papacy is happy to host Polish sponsored talks in Rome to finally end the succession issue.

2) Oddly before the news of the Papal ruling even got to Spain "King" Rodrigo had declared his Abdication in favour of Charles Hapsburg! Now the opinion of a man who does not even know who his parents are and who is believed in some quarters to be the puppet of a Witch and a Devil worshipper is hardly going to count against even the ex-cathedra opinion of the Pope but in this case his abdication and support for Charles Hapsburg has the backing of the Govt Ministers in Madrid & the Five Guilds of Madrid.

1 plus 2 would look to = Thats torn it

But in Salamanca they are still cheering for Rodrigo, in Barcelona they are rioting and Charles Hapsburg still has support even in Italy and on the Council of Naples so things are still not exactly what you would call clear.

3) In Naples when not chatting up local Red Heads, Holding Balls and generally trying to win round a Council of Naples which seems to be if anything pro Charles Hapsburg (at least before the Pope & Events at Sea) the Pro Bourbon Viceroy sent out the Fleet of Naples to break the Venetian Blockade of the City. Not a easy task as the Fleet of Naples has sod all command structure and the Venetian Armada Grossa held the Wind. Perhaps the Viceroy needs to take a break from Red Heads who look like a young Sophia Loren and appoint a Captain-General for the Fleet?

- Fortune or perhaps Venus however smiled on the Raggle Taggle Fleet of Naples struggling to get out of Harbour since the same wind which pined them brought a French Battle Fleet down onto the Venetian under reduced sail & with Guns run out. Admiral Elmo knowing trouble when its flying a bloody great Lilly Banner sailed rapidly south and attempted to reclaim the Wind Guage so he could launch his own attack by going round the Isle of Capri.

- The fancy Venetian sailing worked and the gained the wind guage but at the cost of the French going across the rear of their line and blowing the three cruisers at the rear of the Venetian Line to drift wood.

- Seeing effect of French Naval Artillery Admiral Elmo decided he did not want to attack the French after all (Note it was not mentioned but attacking with the Wind Guage makes it very hard to break off and if Elmo had closed his Ships risked getting stuck on the larger French Warships) and the Venetians headed for the open sea leaving a attempted pursuit by the Fleet of Naples floundering in their wake. Which Louis XIV merry men sailed into Naples looking for Wine, Women & Song like true Frenchmen.

- The Venetian Blockade of Naples seems to have Vanished and the Lilly Banner would seem to rule the Western Med but will this and Papal backing be enough to make Philippe de Bourbon, Duke of Anjou King of Naples?????

4) This would seem to be the opinion that the Doge of Venice expressed to his Guest the Holy Roman Emperor and the Doge has also given the Flagship of Genoa back. But is this opinion shared by Vienna & Madrid?

5) The King-Elector Augustus II spent the Christmas Season visiting markets back home in Saxony.......no doubt picking up gifts for his many, many lady friends. While his Royal Steward did religious type things in Poland. Quite how a Commonwealth partnership between probably the most Pius Lay Catholic in Europe, A Cossack, A Protestant Female Regent and a ex Protestant and Europe's most famous Royal Lover is going to work out remains to be seen.

6) No such problems between King William of Orange and his Ministers in England & Scotland.........The Arts of Oratory, Rhetoric and butterfly collecting remain has popular as ever. Seems Lord Godolphin has called for a conference regarding Piracy and Privateering to be held in London in June 1702.......Oh my God he is giving the Lord President of Scotland six months to write his Speach. The Mercurius Politicus will probably have to print it over about 4 issues.

7) The Great Moghul continues his campaign against the Southern Indians continues with some progress made at Nellore where the Moghuls have taken the covered way and breached the Ramparts but have had tunnels flooded and have been stopped from getting at the breach due to a wet ditch between the covered way and the breach.

- Oddly no counter attacks or raids into Moghul territory to report. The Hindu princes would seem to be waiting for the weather to get better before calling out their levies & with the Moghul aiming at towns rather than laying waste to the Countryside the Hindu's Confederation is not really under much pressure to do anything.

In La Belle France the court gossip is mostly about the Witch-Lord Portocarrero, his Coven ally the Grand Duke of Tuscany & the near daul betwee the Comte de Montserreau and General James Fitzjames, Duke of Berwick, Marshal of France and son of Annabella Churchill & James II.

- But while French senior Officers were getting annoyed about social status at least some of their Junior Officers seems to have got things going as French Forces have garrisoned Courtrai, Ypres, Bruges & Ghent for Philippe de Bourbon, Duke of Flanders on the orders of Philippe d'Orleans Viceroy of Flanders.

- It remains to be seen how the "King" Rodrigo Viceroy for Flanders who is also the Elector of Bavaria react to the movement of French Troops. Will he follow the Papal view, which also has support of Carlos II, that Philippe de Bourbon has best claim to Flanders or will he follow Rodrigo and declare for Charles von Hapsburg?

- General view is that the French have at least 90,000 troops massed on the border of Flanders to back the claim of Louis XIV that Flanders is a historic fief of France and any attempt to "steal" it from his Grandson is going to see Bavaria burn like a Roman Candle down to the Bed Rock _

Stuart Bailey wrote:


6) No such problems between King William of Orange and his Ministers in England & Scotland.........The Arts of Oratory, Rhetoric and butterfly collecting remain has popular as ever.  Seems Lord Godolphin has called for a conference regarding Piracy and Privateering to be held in London in June 1702.......Oh my God he is giving the Lord President of Scotland six months to write his Speach.  The Mercurius Politicus will probably have to print it over about 4 issues.

In La Belle France the court gossip is mostly about the Witch-Lord Portocarrero, his Coven ally the Grand Duke of Tuscany & the near daul betwee the Comte de Montserreau and General James Fitzjames, Duke of Berwick, Marshal of France and son of Annabella Churchill & James II.  

Look, I want a whole newspaper for my speech, thank you very much. It's going to be witty, insightful, world changing...and only about 100,000 words long...in fact it may need to be delivered to every player in a specially bound hard copy, so you can all really enjoy it and have it ready for future reference...

Mind you, seems the French have a Jacobite rebellion of their own to deal with...do I find this amusing? Of course not...

I am I must admit a little confused ( easy to do I know) over the current situation with regards to the Spanish inheritance. As I seem to understand it, The Partition treaty has been signed by France & UDP, which makes Charles king of Spain, & Philip king of Naples, then Rodrigo has abdicated in favour of Charles, so that in line with the partition treaty, however the Pope has now said Philip has the better case, Pope has also agreed to sacrifice himself & the Papacy & take control over Northern Italy at no extra cost. Philips man has also marched forces into Flanders with France acting as a backup with 80,000 men just in case the little old ladies in Flanders get upset & hit somebody with their handbags. Looks like Philip /Corsairs( swap as you see fit) have gone for the possession is 9/10ths of the law idea. So does Philip now consider himself king of Spain & will be looking to get himself crowned by the Pope?
How will the Court in Vienna react to this will they despatch Charles to Madrid & hand him over to the new Spanish player & then runaway & hide behind the blast wall until the smoke clears? Or will they sign the mutual defence treaty with Spain & admit that blood & family ties really mean something & they feel honour bound to support Charles.
Will King Louis feel now feel bound by the partition treaty he has signed & promoted as a peaceful solution, or will the war party in Paris force his hand & make him commit to supporting Philip, because blood & family ties really mean something & they feel honour bound to support Philip.
Maybe the people of Spain will rise in popular revolt & decide Rodrigo is indeed their man, & force him back onto the throne & reject both the other candidates.
UDP & France have both recognised Charles as king of Spain & said Rodrigo has no claim which may also cause some political complications in the short term at least.
It seems that just when things were looking to get complicated they took another twist & became even more complicated.

At least the Flanders bit is simple:

- The French genealogical line via the Spanish Princess Maria Theresa (1st wife of Louis XIV of France) is superior to the Austrian line traced through her younger half sister.

- This has been confirmed by neutral Papal Lawyers & the Pope himself. Ref the ex-cathedra bit this means that this ruling is not Church Dogma so if you oppose Philippe of Anjou as Duke of Flanders its only a simple case of High Treason and will not endanger your saul or entry to Heaven (danger to your body may be a different matter).

- The last Will and Testament of Carlos II said Philippe of Anjou inherits the Duchy of Flanders.

- The Partition Treaty says the last Will and Testament has the support of both France & the UDP. But the Dutch keep their beloved barrier fortresses & upkeep payments from the revenue of Flanders even if Philippe of Anjou swaps Flanders for the Duchy of Milan.

- Flanders is a fief of the French crown and Louis XIV & the True Heir of Maria Theresa (her & Louis son & heir) say Duc of Anjou is also Duke of Flanders. Mostly said to stop Flanders getting swallowed up by the French Crown and upsetting the neighbours!

- Little old Ladies on Flanders (The Duchess of Artois is not that lettle or that old!) & the French Army & Navy love the young Duke......they do not want to hit anyone with anything just have a party, waive flags & drink Flanders Beer at the coronation.

The only Question is will Carlos II former Viceroy (The Elector of Bavaria) & his Deputy in Brussels wish his replacement all the best and send Versailles a bill for his unpaid expenses and a pension demand. Or will they act like typical Agema NPC's and ignore all sweet reason, law, logic, etc, etc untill someone nails their head's to a table and burns Bavaria to the bed rock?

Sorry make that two questions..........has anyone seen the hammer and the matches?

Strictly out of character commentary (and I am by no means the best historian here in the forum, let alone the game):

-The various partition treaties that existed historically were not co-signed by Spain, so they have no direct bearing on the spanish succession per se. They 'may' have bearing upon how other powers choose to play their role in the conflict, but at least as far as I'm aware, Agema has never stated they exist in game as enforceable treaties, so all players are free to act, and if you want them to be real in-game, you probably need to re-sign them, in-game.

-Rodrigo's abdication says "it's not me." But, _only_ if you believe his crowning valid does his naming of Charles as his heir have any meaning. Because if he's invalid as a King, then he can't give what isn't his to someone else. His removal does signal that Spain is ready to abandon a failed strategy, and probably does mean they're ready to reach a settlement, but the devil is always in the details.

-Charles and Philip are the two characters with the best claims, as others have noted. How those two sort out their claims and who gets what is the in-game challenge.

-The historical problem of the potential for consolidating the thrones of Spain and France creating an un-stoppable European superpower mostly doesn't exist in-game. The Spanish player gets to play whoever the heir is to the Spanish throne. If the French or Austrian players don't sever the thrones formally, then there is the remote possibility that the Spanish player would inherit your position in the event of the death of your sovereign and other heirs. (The player who controls the character tends to win that battle and if you are France or Austria and your heir is in Madrid/El Escorial you are not that player....)

-Because the above is true, that the Spanish player still gets Spain and might choose to ignore the ties of blood, the French and Austrian players tend to have less to win by placing their candidate upon the throne. And consolidating the thrones would normally mean they lose the position they've been running for possibly years.

-Historically, Spain got a fair bit dismembered in the succession process. I think the Spanish player here made a tactical error in picking a questionable birth and trying to hold everything rather than picking a winner/ally to minimize costs of the succession. But you pays your turn fees and you makes your own choices. Could be I'm wrong. Bully for him for trying to hold on to it all.

Whatever the Spanish player ends up doing here, I think you need to deal with the in-game reality that Philip and Charles are the two clear and obvious heirs. If you're going to reject them, you need a firmer foundation to chart a different course.

Deacon wrote:

-The historical problem of the potential for consolidating the thrones of Spain and France creating an un-stoppable European superpower mostly doesn't exist in-game. The Spanish player gets to play whoever the heir is to the Spanish throne. If the French or Austrian players don't sever the thrones formally, then there is the remote possibility that the Spanish player would inherit your position in the event of the death of your sovereign and other heirs. (The player who controls the character tends to win that battle and if you are France or Austria and your heir is in Madrid/El Escorial you are not that player....)

-Because the above is true, that the Spanish player still gets Spain and might choose to ignore the ties of blood, the French and Austrian players tend to have less to win by placing their candidate upon the throne. And consolidating the thrones would normally mean they lose the position they've been running for possibly years.

In G2 Phillip of Anjou King of Spain sadly lost all his French relations when in a truely impressive own goal the new French Govt decided it wanted to be a "revolutionary" Govt about 80 years early and beheaded them all.

Taking a break from usual hobbies of fighting the English and taking over Portugal the Spanish marched North to put one of Philip of Anjou's sons on the throne of France.

From then onwards French Govts acted in the name of the King Charles of France (son of Phlilip of Spain and Mary Stuart) but in game terms having Philip son or even Philip on the throne did not mean the Govts of Spain & France were united. Rather they acted like Saxony & the Polish Commonweath states, or the Ottoman states, or England, Scotland & the UDP in games were they share the same head of state.

Ref the question of why should French & Austrian players make an effort to put junior relations on the throne of Spain from G7 experiece I can confirm:

- It put the HRE at the top of the honour list
- Gained Austria a key ally
- Gained Autrian Merchants advantages in Spanish Empire

Finally lots of Princes in the HRE & Hungarian Nobles etc really care about keeping the Emperor and his eldest son fit and healthy. For some reason I just do not understand they seem oddly alarmed at the prospect of Charles von Hapsburg standing as Holy Roman Emperor.

I suppose Both Stuart & Deacon are correct, If a new player emerges from the chaos of current Spanish position then they will get to play their own game & style, probably get a decent honour boost if they can have a decent coronation ceremony & then play in whatever direction they want to, if the peace conference organised by Poland reaches an accord then there is also the chance that the new player actually gets a couple of turns of peace.

I notice as I write that I/we are all assuming there is a new player, has anyone actually had a letter? I had thought based on the assumption that Austria was asked to sign a treaty with Spain & that the town criers got mugged in Madrid( albeit this maybe a normal daily occurrence) that a new player had walked out to the wicket, maybe I have jumped to my conclusion a little too quickly.