Game 10

Suspect turn will land this week.

With luck we will all get to see the long awaited Judgement of the Vatican. Could be that the coming turns are filled with damage limitation propoganda by claimants to the throne of Spain, will be interesting to see how the decision effects all concerned parties. Guess everyone is expecting at least a bit of the pie, possibly there will be some swaps & dealings after it is all made public.

Could it defuse tensions between Vienna & paris, or are the timetables set, firing pans primed & swords loosened in there scabbards. There are probably a few pure blooded wargamers in game who are getting fedup with all the diplomatic interference in their grand strategy for world domination.

Whoever gets Spain has their work cut out, Politically divided, full of foriegn agents & money, ministers loyalties bought off by the various factions oh yes & a famine, just to name a few of the initial problems for the new King of Spain Good luck to you......who ever you may be

Even a slightly diminished Spain is still a vast position with huge potential.

Give it a few years of good management, and it will be well positioned for payback

Think that is part of the problem with the whole situation in G10 . In that the potential of the position is known to all, but people want it on hand straight away, hence all the poaching of the valuable colonial assets & Core SPanish Mainland gets left for the vultures.

Completely agree potential is there but time seems to be of the essense.

We are approaching an in game point that may well define the initial stages at least of the games course, so it will be interesting to see how reactions to the up coming turn fall out.

tkolter wrote:Oh what supplements would you suggest I get?

I've been thinking about this and I'm not really sure which are useful especially for Abyssinia. I have had a quick look through and I couldn't see any that made reference to Abyssinia directly (of course might have missed something ). Roy/Rozwi might be better placed to advise as he is better placed to know which are more useful to an African position.

Having said that, I sometimes find things in the supplements that don't automatically apply to my position but can be modified or "invented" to be of use. For example there is an old supplement on the Ottoman army-which came in handy for inspiration when I played Persia. The most recent supplement is called "The Miscellany", unfortunately I can't see anything in it that directly mentions Abyssinia but it includes composite bows. These are available to nations like Persia, China and the Ottoman Empire-so could they also be available to Abyssinia?

Though I think the supplements are of use even if they don't seem to have anything that directly benefits your position as they help explain the wider workings of the games

I thought so I have plans to get composite bow technology and others its not going to handle non-basic technology but help get some and well part of my trade plans for Abyssinia.

I personally think that most of the supplements are of value, but it depends upon your gaming budget. As a non-European, they'll all be less valuable, but as Jason says, you can get inspiration for your realm.

They also give you an idea what you might face from other nations.

Deacon wrote:Even a slightly diminished Spain is still a vast position with huge potential.

Give it a few years of good management, and it will be well positioned for payback

I was wondering how large a position the Empire of Portugal is?

If Spain were to lose its links with Flanders, Milan and Naples the population of the position would shrink by roughly 6.5m people.

If this lost population is replaced by Portugal and its holdings in the America's, Africa and India does anyone know if this is a larger or smaller tax base?

Speaking as someone who has had to try and defend Hapsburg Spain in G7 and has at different times had to consider threats from French, English, Ottomans and Pirates I can confirm that trying to plan the defence of Carlos II inheritence is a nightmare and if Pedro can swap Milan, Naples and Flanders for Portugal and its Empire without too great a loss of Population/income its a cracking deal from the point of view of military planning.  

Plus a united Iberia without distractions has the potential to dwarf all other European powers in terms of international trade.  Which of course may be a reason why some people may not be that keen on a Atlantic and colonial focused Iberia with about as much interest in defending Italy as say Scotland or Prussia.

Remove all Iberian interest in Italy and suddenly we are back in the 1480's with the Ottomans landing in the south and people planning to invite in the French or other outside powers to say at their beach side Villa and get on over on local rivals.

Portugal doesn't make up for what is lost. It does give huge international colonies that a clever player could exploit to rebuild, and maybe even retake lost territory. But it would be the work of years.

But in this game, anything big is the work of years.

Jason wrote:

tkolter wrote:Oh what supplements would you suggest I get?

Roy/Rozwi might be better placed to advise as he is better placed to know which are more useful to  an African position.

I compiled this index [back in 2015 before game 10 started] for the supplements [I don't, yet, own the latest book, so can't offer info.]

Defoe's Illuminations:
p.3: Rat Catchers
p.8: Studfarm Training
p.9: Guard Dogs
p.9: Arsenals
p.11: Infantry Classification
p.17: Building options (such as Harems and Shrines)
p.18: Tobacco
p.18: Cork
P.19: Rinderpest
P.20: Studfarm Selective Breeding
p.21: Farm Tools
p.21: Timber (types and uses and values)
p.22: Waterwells
p.25: Mining matters
p.26: Mining Improvements
p.27: Trade matters
p.29: Slave Workgangs

The Gentleman's Handbook:
p.2: Gold or Silver Bullion
p.4: Slave Markets
p.4: Seed Grain
p.5: Fresh Water Supply & Aqueducts
p.14: Last Will & Testament
p.15: Addressing Other Rulers

Carte Blanche:
p.15: Animal Husbandry Academy

Book of Revelations:
p.2: (military) Drilling
p.3: (military) Shields
p.4: (military) Patrolling Roads
p.6: Converting Tribal Infantry to Regulars
p.7: Fort Stockade
p.7: Wooden Fortress
p.7: Sluice Gates for Flooding a Fortress Ditch
p.10: The Trouble with Road Repairs
p.14: Settlers
p.15: Covered Market
p.15: Medical Care
p.16: Buffalo
p.17: Catastrophic Crop Failure
p.18: Flax Crops
p.19: Legume Seeds
p.20: Potash

Advice for Princes:
p.2: Night Soil Men
p.2: (military) Pack Animals
p.4: Loss of Prospecting Party
P.7 (military) Troops on High Alert, and Guarding Prisoners
p.27: Estate Revenues and Estate Revenues - Increasing Income
p.29: Caravanasaries
P.29: Surplus Grain as Animal Feed
p.32: Tropical Hardwood
p.34: Reglious men for the army & for the population
p.41: Southern African tribe - San
p.42: Southern African tribe - Khoikhoin

I don't have the Atlas, so can't comment on that. I, also, no longer have a copy of the Gazetteer. The above is relevant - at least to my mind - for an African Tribal position. However, from what I know of Abyssinia, that nation is far more advanced culturally [and probably technologically] than Rozwi would be in 1700, so the game supplements could provide more than I have listed above - lawyers and doctors, etc.

Awesome time to look more into these. Thanx.

EDIT: Catapults are covered in them to, a major weapon of the Abyssinian Empire I should learn about.

tkolter wrote:Awesome time to look more into these. Thanx.

EDIT: Catapults are covered in them to, a major weapon of the Abyssinian Empire I should learn about.

The new Miscellany actually devotes a whole page (page 51) to plants in Abyssinia and the healing uses for them recorded in three books by Abyssinian Monks from Waldebba in the North West. Seems like a case could be made for making that Monastery a Medical Institute and getting all those ancient Greek, Hebrew, Islamic and local medical texts in the libary dusted off and brought up to date.

Since Abyssinian Armies had small numbers of Cannon from 1533 and by 1700 up to a third of the Army had firearms I think Catapults are a bit of a side track. Better to keep it simple, direct and brutal.........lots of skirmishing perhaps with Archery then give opponents a single massed volley from close range and charge home through the smoke screaming they "dont like it up them" in Abyssinian.

I have two household guards with flintlock muskets, all the rest are tribal classic units. And I don't start with cannons. So my strategy is to avoid war by being neutral and well highly drilled units and moving to all units save special units using a tactic of flexible combat my rank and file have bows, spears, swords the vicious native ones and square metal shields and will get armor soon. The idea is the front ranks with shields will form a wall kneeling, the second rank of archery fire upon kneeling will unleash arcing volleys until they run out then they swap positions to let the rest volley fire a lot then they can advance using spears and shields and if they throw the spear go to swords. Cavalry will scout.

But have planned cavalry as a policing force that works with their patrol regions and work with the levee to gather information and do other tasks.

And a proper one step-leveled drilled militia as my auxiliary legions.

Turn just arrived in Sunny Sennelager.

Looks like everyone wanted to get in their claim & counter claim before the Papal Sledge hammer fell.

Seems the Papal judgement, backs none of the afore mentioned candidates, but lets the Spanish people, or at least Spanish court choose who should become king, will be interesting to see what kinds of posts come onto the forum in the next few days.

(Shame the Dutch claim for Flanders & Mexico didn't seem to get mentioned)

I have a question if one wants to sell ore do you need to do the mining first then the next month do the trade order or can you do them the month you order the mining?

That said no making waves in my turn this month until April I don't want to spend money, its important to handle ones finances properly in any game.

So we have some kind of clarity at last with regards Spain, If Austria wants it then it can have it, if not then Portugal. Or maybe both not, because the Papal judgement puts it that the council of Spanish Nobles should decide, but only so long as their candidate is born in Spain. Worst comes to worst a caretaker government from the Papal States will take over making Spain a Papal fiefdom until the man with the shiny sword comes along on his white charger.

So how will it all pan out, will all those who asked for the Pope to get a judgement in place now actually listen to what has been said? Or will the bickering over Pizza parlours continue into the new game year?

J Flower wrote:So we have some kind of clarity at last with regards Spain, If Austria wants it then it can have it, if not then Portugal. Or maybe both not, because the Papal judgement  puts it that the council of Spanish Nobles should decide, but only so long as their candidate is born in Spain. Worst comes to worst a caretaker government from the Papal States will take over making Spain a Papal fiefdom until the man with the shiny sword comes along on his white charger.

So how will it all pan out, will all those who asked for the Pope to get a judgement in place now actually listen to what has been said? Or will the bickering over Pizza parlours continue into the new game year?

If the Pope has passed the decision ref Carlos II heir onto the Great & Good sitting in Council......Well the Noble Councils of Naples, Flanders and Milan have already decided.........so Philip of Anjou now has Papal backing for Flanders and Milan (but he only asked for Papal backing ref the Papal fief of Naples?).  While Charles von Hapsburg gets Papal backing for his claim to Naples.  Think people can live with this esp if any attempt to dispute it will probably get you killed.

Only problem with putting the decision to a council of Spanish Nobles is that Spain has got 5 Cortez.  What are the odds that Madrid and Barca will agree?

Forbin & Bart those famous poll managers by Royal Appointment think if the vote was held now Pedro of Portugal will win Madrid, Charles von Hapsburg will win Barca and Valencia with Pampolona going for Philip of Anjou while Saragossa is too close to call.  Alternatively the councils will vote for anyone with a spare £1m or if locked in a room with Forbin, Bart some of their crew and a selection of lump hammers, nails, soft comfy chairs and perhaps the odd goat.

Note prospective Kings of Spain who want to hire Forbin and Bart Pollesters to help run their election for very, very reasonable rates should make their approach via the Bucket of Blood Tavern Dunkirk

Why not just split Spain into part with multiple kings?

Quite a bit happening in Sub-Saharan Africa this turn, so The Rozwi Indaba will need to run off an extended print edition for this forum! More to follow...

Highlights being:-

. Asante Union makes the newspaper, talks with the Danish diplomat and about Dutch recruit poaching

. Abyssinia looks to boost the prosperity of their people through coal trade

. Rozwi drops trade tariffs against Scottish and Portuguese traders, and the Changamire meets with the Princess of Tonga

. at Mozambique, Rozwi's ambassador asks Portugal's governor-general whether, or not, Portugal will accept the Pope's offer of helping to bridge the language and culture barrier between Blacks and Whites in the region?

. ...Oh, and Rozwi is now at war with Ovambo (it is official - it says so, in red letters, in my [Rozwi] turn sheet)

tkolter wrote:I have a question if one wants to sell ore do you need to do the mining first then the next month do the trade order or can you do them the month you order the mining?

That said no making waves in my turn this month until April I don't want to spend money, its important to handle ones finances properly in any game.

Never having done this, or similar, I can't give a definite answer. But, I reckon, you'd be okay just making an investment into mining - stating at the time of creation that it was specifically dealing with such and such mineral or such and such ore. Someone else on the forum will know, for sure, I'd think

Interesting ruling by His Holiness:

The Duchy of Milan reverts to Emperor Leopold.

The Spanish Netherlands (Flanders-Brabant) reverts to Emperor Leopold.

"The 3 Papal fiefs of Sardinia, Sicily and Naples legally reverted to Papal control on the death of King Carlos and will remain under my (Papal) control until I decide what to do with them".

The Crown of Castille and the Crown of Aragon (the latter a composite monarchy ruling the Kingdoms of Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia, the Balearics). The Royal Council of Spain has 7 days to choose a Spanish born noble as King of Spain otherwise the newly unified Crown of Spain is surrendered to the Papal States.

"Papal fiefs by their nature are excluded from the Crown of Spain, as are Flanders and Milan, but all other colonies and overseas territories ruled by King Carlos were legally attached to the Crown of Castille and therefore form part of the new Kingdom of Spain".

A joint Spanish-Portuguese Kingdom is blocked.

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:Quite a bit happening in Sub-Saharan Africa this turn, so The Rozwi Indaba will need to run off an extended print edition for this forum! More to follow...

Highlights being:-

. Asante Union makes the newspaper, talks with the Danish diplomat and about Dutch recruit poaching

. Abyssinia looks to boost the prosperity of their people through coal trade

. Rozwi drops trade tariffs against Scottish and Portuguese traders, and the Changamire meets with the Princess of Tonga

. at Mozambique, Rozwi's ambassador asks Portugal's governor-general whether, or not, Portugal will accept the Pope's offer of helping to bridge the language and culture barrier between Blacks and Whites in the region?

. ...Oh, and Rozwi is now at war with Ovambo (it is official - it says so, in red letters, in my [Rozwi] turn sheet)

Well I wanted to protect the treasure of the forests and trees, charcoal isn't needed with a coal supply, and strong trees and forests aid native animals and wood for crafting needs later on.

& I have read & reread His Holiness’s ruling a few times now. Now, I know there will be more than a few in this chain who are not ‘in agreement’ with it, but I have to say, what a brilliantly researched & well thought out legal opinion. The time to research independently, read & consider all submissions & then form a a multi-faceted opinion. As well as respond to all submissions. It would be wrong for me to give any detailed response to the judgement in this forum, but I have to say, what brilliant & dedicated play from the new player.

Hapsburg wrote:Interesting ruling by His Holiness:

The Duchy of Milan reverts to Emperor Leopold.

The Spanish Netherlands (Flanders-Brabant) reverts to Emperor Leopold.

"The 3 Papal fiefs of Sardinia, Sicily and Naples legally reverted to Papal control on the death of King Carlos and will remain under my (Papal) control until I decide what to do with them".

The Crown of Castille and the Crown of Aragon (the latter a composite monarchy ruling the Kingdoms of Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia, the Balearics). The Royal Council of Spain has 7 days to choose a Spanish born noble as King of Spain otherwise the newly unified Crown of Spain is surrendered to the Papal States.

"Papal fiefs by their nature are excluded from the Crown of Spain, as are Flanders and Milan, but all other colonies and overseas territories ruled by King Carlos were legally attached to the Crown of Castille and therefore form part of the new Kingdom of Spain".

A joint Spanish-Portuguese Kingdom is blocked.

News to me that Spain and Sicily are Papal fiefs..........fairly sure this is not the case.  Also as Carlos the II has perfectly good male hairs I am sure that fiefs do not revert.  If they did so no Noble Families lands would be safe!!!!

Lucky my character is a good Gallican Catholic (refer to page 47 & 48 of the Miscellany) and Flanders is part of the Gallican Church so we only have to listen to the Pope on matters spiritual and with regards to sulvation.

But If anyone if "feeling lucky" ref Flanders please feel free to wear big red crosses........it helps aiming!

Interestingly that having a minor French position active as well as the main Govt in G10 creates an interesting twist for Louis XIV in G10 which you do not get in other games.  Normally the main French player only has to worry about international relations but in G10 he has also got a Court faction demanding that he defends the Gallican Church, the legacy of St Louis and the very foundations of the French Church & State from a bunch of slimey Italian Lawyers who should be broken on the wheel and staked out on the beach at low tide.

Does Louis XIV decide to fight?  Possibly against a Holy League backed by the Papacy (bit 1520's here) Or throw the Countess of Artois and Forbin etc into the Bastille?

Kerensky wrote:& I have read & reread His Holiness’s ruling a few times now. Now, I know there will be more than a few in this chain who are not ‘in agreement’ with it, but I have to say, what a brilliantly researched & well thought out legal opinion. The time to research independently, read & consider all submissions & then form a a multi-faceted opinion. As well as respond to all submissions. It would be wrong for me to give any detailed response to the judgement in this forum, but I have to say, what brilliant & dedicated play from the new player.

It certainly makes the game a lot more simple to play............in the words of Claude de Forbin "You just have to love the smell of burning Italian Lawyers in the marning, it smells like victory."

I say go to war, let the strongest prevail.

And this coming month equipment enhancements including cuirasses for everyone in the army and household guard, and lots of drilling going on I figure with neighbors having bows, spears and swords that armor will offer significant protection and I'll have 60 military units plus so yes, once all get one level of drill in they should pose a significant threat to invaders. More will be added to the militia as they get trained, drilling to one level then stood down. Purely to protect the Empire of course. I don't mind if people know, its not a deterrent plan in the long term military posture if no one knows about it.