Game 10

Goes (roughly)

"Great Britain recognized the island state of Singapore. How do you recognize an island? Do you
go, Hey, wait. No, don't tell me. Wait, wait. Didn't we meet last year at the Feinman bar mitzvah?
You look a lot like Hawaii. Didn't we meet last year at the Peninsula Club?"

Haha , yes , I see ..Sounds like Robin Williams .

And in his voice it's much funnier...maybe I could do something similar in-game...must some nations I can recognise in the same way...maybe say "Didn't we meet last year at the Emperor's Birthday Party, you look like Denmark on a bad day"

The way things are going G10 players will soon be able to select who they want to recognise not only as King of England/Scotland & Ireland but also who they want to recognise as:

a) King of Spain - The Duc of Anjou, Charles Hapsburg or Pedro of Portugal

b) King of Poland - Augustus the Strong or some other chap who wins an election.

c) Pope - The one in Rome or the one in Avignon.

Perhaps it should be called G10 - The I spy game.

@ Stuart Bailey

Nice ship............looks like a Fore Top Sail Schooner Rig so quite a bit after our period.

Indeed, a while after. I went and checked the bio for you:

The Royal Albatross started her life in Chicago, cruising the Great Lakes prior to the beginning of an epic journey that brought her over 15,000 kilometres from the moderate climes of North America to the tropical waters of South East Asia.
Since arriving in Singapore, approximately 360,000 man hours have been invested re-designing and re-fitting Royal Albatross resulting in a sailing ship of unmatched quality and splendour. A ship designed to entertain and impress with 22 sails, over 650 square meters of canvas and over 60,000 RGB lights to set Royal Albatross’s mood for whatever the occasion requires.

Although, of course you knew all this, as it is part of the Claude Forbin 'Plan B' Far Eastern Entertainment Empire!

Kerensky wrote:@ Stuart Bailey

Nice ship............looks like a Fore Top Sail Schooner Rig so quite a bit after our period.

Indeed, a while after. I went and checked the bio for you:

The Royal Albatross started her life in Chicago, cruising the Great Lakes prior to the beginning of an epic journey that brought her over 15,000 kilometres from the moderate climes of North America to the tropical waters of South East Asia.
Since arriving in Singapore, approximately 360,000 man hours have been invested re-designing and re-fitting Royal Albatross resulting in a sailing ship of unmatched quality and splendour.  A ship designed to entertain and impress with 22 sails, over 650 square meters of canvas and over 60,000 RGB lights to set Royal Albatross’s mood for whatever the occasion requires.

Although, of course you knew all this, as it is part of the Claude Forbin 'Plan B' Far Eastern Entertainment Empire!  

Looks like Forbin is going to have to move his flag from his current the "Les Jeux" to a new ship..............the "Albatross Roi"

March 1703 newspaper wrote:Inhambane: Eric van d’Linden was invited to the Governor’s Kraal where he met Rozwi’s minister for welcomed guests, Chief Muzorewa of the Changamire. Three Rozwi women who have been teaching the Dutch envoy the Rozwi language accompanied him. They insisted on doing so, claiming his grasp of the language is not quite good enough yet.

What transpired at the Kraal was not directly heard, but the women spoke about it and said the chief wished to know why the Treaty of Kaap Kolonie has not yet been signed? They are also believed to have spoken about hunting gazelle.

Have to say I laughed out loud on reading the above. No need for foreign spies in Rozwi when my own people gossip about what is said in private for all and sundry to hear.  

Welcome to the game. If you don't make it really, really REALLY clear to your ministers and the like that a conversation is not to be repeated, it will often end up in the paper.

I learned that lesson the hard way...

Deacon wrote:
Welcome to the game. If you don't make it really, really REALLY clear to your ministers and the like that a conversation is not to be repeated, it will often end up in the paper.

I learned that lesson the hard way...

Since this is one of the great periods for dauling...........so my theory is that a gentleman should never be rude about anyone he is not willing to kill.

That's what bodyguards are for, an Emperor wouldn't duel some common person he lets his Household Guard kick them around and then toss him out of his presence. Call the Emperor a coward and lose your tongue for it on top of the beating.

On the game serious side no plans for spending until April, so am looking for a Queen if I opt for more wives I can always pass a law allowing it after all King Solomon had many wives and concubines so allowing the Emperor say three should be fine. Plus I need to keep political marriage chances open with other kingdoms say Russia I could take a cousin to the Czar as a wife or a similar arrangement.

But Granaries are a major likely investment once my Rat Catchers are trained and I continue improvements of food crop and trade crop production hopefully we can store precious grain for times of want.

tkolter wrote:That's what bodyguards are for, an Emperor wouldn't duel some common person he lets his Household Guard kick them around and then toss him out of his presence. Call the Emperor a coward and lose your tongue for it on top of the beating.

So some of the time you have to kill a few thousand or tens of thousands of Guards, Household Troops, Winged Hussar's as well.

Clearly its important to do a complete job and wipe out the Guards as well since if you just kill your target and no one else........ people will call you an assassin and no true gentleman wants to be called that.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

tkolter wrote:That's what bodyguards are for, an Emperor wouldn't duel some common person he lets his Household Guard kick them around and then toss him out of his presence. Call the Emperor a coward and lose your tongue for it on top of the beating.

So some of the time you have to kill a few thousand or tens of thousands of Guards, Household Troops, Winged Hussar's as well.

Clearly its important to do a complete job and wipe out the Guards as well since if you just kill your target and no one else........ people will call you an assassin and no true gentleman wants to be called that.

Whereas killing 100,000 will most probably result in you getting a dukedom

This April I will mainly be researching... Improvements to the tools used in the Rozwi area of the Hoe-cultivation belt, castration of adult male cattle and, though not linked to the other two, improvements to gillnets (in commercial fishing practice).

No jokes that I'm talking nuts, please!

Isn't castration of adult male cattle a good way to eliminate your herds over time????


Puzzled of the Asante

The Revenant wrote:Isn't castration of adult male cattle a good way to eliminate your herds over time????  


Puzzled of the Asante

Apols if I'm just stating the obvious  In domestic herds, most male cattle are surplus to requirements, you only need a proportionately small number of uncastrated ones to keep the herds going (cattle aren't really one male cow-one female cow types ).  

You can keep the surplus ones and use them as beats of burden (pulling ploughs and carts, etc) but uncastrated adult male cattle are quite territorial/violent and don't get on with other adult male cattle (which is why you only tend to see one in a field and why there are usually warning signs about them), so you can't have a team pulling something.  So you either end up killing the surplus ones while young (a meat source) or you castrate them-which calms them down so they can work in teams  though I believe it also means they end up not quite as powerful as uncastrated ones

Ah, so not castrating ALL adult male cattle... (that does make sense).

@stuartbailey...... you've let me down on the turn review again .... tut tut

Sent from Topic'it App

The Revenant wrote:Ah, so not castrating ALL adult male cattle...  (that does make sense).

Well, I assume that's what Roy meant

But you know what these Rozwi are like, they get easily confused...before you know it they're herding the corn and planting the cattle

I am pleased to see no more Scottish letters seem to have gone astray...this may or may not be linked to the establishment of the "Scottish Courier Service, Armed questionable birth Section"...I cannot confirm or deny at this stage that their commanding officer is Captain Gene Hunt...

(and no, I didn't type "questionable birth"!)

Re: Bull nuts. Yes, what Jason's said. I have a feeling that Rozwi is using hand hoeing methods, so want to check with our advisers (the GM) to confirm if we know about oxen teams and basic ploughing methods (as in how it was done 2000 years ago in Egypt - I wouldn't be surprised if Rozwi doesn't know about the plough!) or whether it is all done by over-worked women using wooden sticks to till the land. From what I've read, only the Horn of Africa knew about mechanical farming methods (as in the plough etc.) pre-European colonialism as the knowledge was passed to them from Egypt.

I've been looking into farming practices of Ancient Egypt, Mesoamerica and the Arab Agricultural Revolution for ideas on what to look into with Rozwi's agricultural academies. Also I've been looking into historic fishing practices of non-Europeans to see what I can have my fishing academy look into (already discovered Improved Fish Traps).

Got to say Roy, I do like the way you are playing the Rozwi. You could just develop it by Europeanising it (e.g. getting European agricultural missions in) but instead you are looking at in-period and in-region developments (reminds me of how I play a Chinese position).

I look forward to continue reading about your developments

On the subject of doing a nut job on cattle & horses etc as well as making them more relatively more docile....still do not recommend sharing a field with a herd of Steers (young castrated male cattle)  esp if the dog you are walking starts barking at them.....the main advantages are a) The castrated animals will gain size and weight since they are not putting their energy into other things and b) If only your prize studs have the equipment left to breed this will improve the breed over time.

Interestingly based on conversations I have had with Massi in Kenya their seems to be a difference in how European herders and African herders view their herd's.  If you go to the Bath & West Show for instance its all about having the best & biggest animals and half of Irish Myth seems to be based on the theft of a Prize Bull etc.

While in African Herding culture it all seems to be about the number of cattle rather than the size and weight of meat.  Not really sure why herding cultures in Europe and Africa developed differently but possible reasons may include I) In many African Cultures Cattle was money and bride prices etc were paid in the paid in number of cattle II)  Greater dangers to cattle in Africa.......not much point carefully breeding your prize stud bull if it then steps on a Black Mamba or becomes a lion snack  III) African herders tend to live on the milk and blood provided by their animals......while many  European cattle are raised for meat so size matters far more.

Taking Highland Cattle as an example I am fairly sure a fully grown one is in no danger from a wolf, trying to drain blood from it would be down right dangerous and Scots herders were not handing over any cattle for a bride price.  Rather they expected the wife to come with a Dowry.

Ref Horses it should be noted that Cavalry ride Mares or Geldings.........since if your Cavalry Regiment is riding Stallions its only going to take a couple of mares on heat to cause total anarchy.

An interesting comparison Stuart

Apols, i try not to not talk too much about the day job in case I sound like a boring know-it-all but have spent waaaayyyyy too much time handling excavated cattle bones from 4th Century BC to 19th Century AD...and apart from regularly yelling "who wanted to keep 2,000 identical cow bones"...

The size difference is more  a thing of the so-called "British Agricultural Revolution", starting just before the Glory Period,  Prior to that, the difference in size between European and African cattle bones (and have dealt with both) was minimal.  The Irish stories about raids involving large cattle are significant because it was clearly the size of one-offs that made the raid worth it.  Seriously, the one thing about an excavation of a British Iron Age site is the sheer number of cattle bones!  If you go back earlier to Neolithic excavations, the number of cattle bones gets beyond a joke.  The bones suggest smaller cattle than we are use to today but when you look at the sheer number and calculate the number of cattle that represented, then compare that with population projections for the time...well you are faced with meat consumption figures that would make the most determined meat-eater think a vegan option once in a while was a good idea.  There have been excavations at long barrows where we have uncovered the cattle bones that seem to be associated with what must have been a feast related to the closing of the barrow...and the number of cattle involved is almost "WTF"

Highland cattle are an interesting one, esp as the modern Highland cattle are really a blend of what in the Glory period were two separate groups of cattle (the Highland cattle in the islands were quite a bit smaller than those found on the "mainland").   In some ways, they might be nearer to the cattle of the Massi Stuart spoke with, dual-purpose (meat and milk) and its numbers, not size, that counted.  On the idea of blood from cattle, a colleague who was a specialist in religious heritage, in a chat about vampires (I have the oddest work-related chats sometimes) did say that an impact of Christianity was an aversion of taking blood from animals.  Part of her argument was that the idea of vampires (in Gothic literature) was a reference to African tribes using cattle for blood and an European-Christian revulsion at that (this was the most "safe to share" part of our discussion).

Jason wrote:Apols, i try not to not talk too much about the day job in case I sound like a boring know-it-all but have spent waaaayyyyy too much time handling excavated cattle bones from 4th Century BC to 19th Century AD...and apart from regularly yelling "who wanted to keep 2,000 identical cow bones"...

The size difference is more  a thing of the so-called "British Agricultural Revolution", starting just before the Glory Period,  Prior to that, the difference in size between European and African cattle bones (and have dealt with both) was minimal.  The Irish stories about raids involving large cattle are significant because it was clearly the size of one-offs that made the raid worth it.  Seriously, the one thing about an excavation of a British Iron Age site is the sheer number of cattle bones!  If you go back earlier to Neolithic excavations, the number of cattle bones gets beyond a joke.  The bones suggest smaller cattle than we are use to today but when you look at the sheer number and calculate the number of cattle that represented, then compare that with population projections for the time...well you are faced with meat consumption figures that would make the most determined meat-eater think a vegan option once in a while was a good idea.  There have been excavations at long barrows where we have uncovered the cattle bones that seem to be associated with what must have been a feast related to the closing of the barrow...and the number of cattle involved is almost "WTF"

Highland cattle are an interesting one, esp as the modern Highland cattle are really a blend of what in the Glory period were two separate groups of cattle (the Highland cattle in the islands were quite a bit smaller than those found on the "mainland").   In some ways, they might be nearer to the cattle of the Massi Stuart spoke with, dual-purpose (meat and milk) and its numbers, not size, that counted.  On the idea of blood from cattle, a colleague who was a specialist in religious heritage, in a chat about vampires (I have the oddest work-related chats sometimes) did say that an impact of Christianity was an aversion of taking blood from animals.  Part of her argument was that the idea of vampires (in Gothic literature) was a reference to African tribes using cattle for blood and an European-Christian revulsion at that (this was the most "safe to share" part of our discussion).

2 questions for the experts on cattle bones ...

1. I wonder if the difference in size could also be related to the size of farms/smallholdings.  If you have a small farm or villagers kept a single cow then I suspect its main function would be to provide dairy for the villagers rather than as part of a beef herd (where size is more important).   Were separate beef/dairy herds/breeds a result of later changes through selective breeding or at least in part a natural result of larger farms?

2. Thinking from the farmer's viewpoint, the key determinant on growth is quality of grass and its availability through the winter.  Surely even before selective breeding, farmers would cull the weaker/smaller cows from their herd when fodder was scarce.  Did this not apply especially in Scotland where grain from northern England was exported to help feed Scottish cattle?

Perhaps Rozwi herds, if unmanaged, would be more similar to Indian (Hindu) herds where milk yields fell because they would not eat cows?  Could simply separating large herds into dairy and beef, not result in improvements for both, especially since winter feed shouldn't be a problem in Rozwi?

Not heard the idea that Christianity brought an aversion of taking blood from animals before.  Certainly not the case at the time of the Jewish Temple, but I suppose Victorian protestant stories can be selective to please their audience.  I suppose it could have been an issue for missionaries seeking to discredit tribal practices?

Not sure how accurate it would be to take the Massi view of cattle and apply to to other Africa powers on Glori but for the Rozwi might like to note that the:

The Massi think that God gave cattle to the Massi which means that all cattle held by other people are actually stolen Massi Cattle and need to be "recovered".  

The Massi very rarely eat meat............which puts the African herding tradition at odds with the Indo-European cattle culture of massive feasts.  Odd how large parts of the Indian branch did turn Veggie while keeping the Cow as a sacred animal unlike in the Indo-European traditions where the Horse is sacred and Cows are food.

For the Massi its all about the number of animals not their quality or even more the ground.  For someone like me from a West Country farming background what matters is farmland and soil not the animals you keep on it........which results in a dislike of goats and overgrazing.
Perhaps because Africa has so much land the Massi seemed to have no objection to goats or overgrazing a area of land and then moving on.

Ref the drinking blood being considered an anti-Christian act (which raises questions about the Catholic Mass & Black Pudding eaters) think this is more likely a carry over from Jewish diet law.  But I suspect the idea of Vampires being linked to blood drinking tribes is more likely a link with blood drinking Asian tribes like the Huns, Mongols, Avars etc many of whom raided or settled in the Hungarian heartlands of Vampire myth rather than African tribes.  

Still it may be fun for the Rozwi to feed new Envoys etc a big bowl of blood and milk as a "sacred welcome".....terrible insult to the sacred cattle spirits if its rejected!