Game 10

Thanks for your thoughts Stuart and Revenant, much appreciated.

Revenant you're right of course, that one slipped past the proof readers. At least the translators weren't to blame this time

Thanks for the round up Marshal Bombast . I check the paper and am happy when I'm NOT in it . Click through the other stuff , read a clever person's round up then try to find it myself . Thanks again .

Mike wrote:Thanks for the round up Marshal Bombast . I check the paper and am happy when I'm NOT in it . Click through the other stuff , read a clever person's round up then try to find it myself . Thanks again .

Thanks Mike, I enjoy writing them when I get the time and try to run a theme through it. Not that clever though given I get lost with things like the African geography but that could still be down to the the newspaper translators in Russia

Its an outrage! I want my Lawyer !! I want damages awarded !!!

Corairs expect to be called the odd name but being called Franco-Jacobite just because one sailed from Scotland is nasty slander and totally untrue.

Do these Mercurius Politicus printer chaps not know that calling someone a Jacobite can get them hung or blown out of the water?! Withoiut benefit of a prize court.

Is that where the Stuart's got off to. If so please drop them off in an English port so that we can have a discussion with them. We might have a little time to discuss things with them since discussions will likely be ending in other places.

revvaughan wrote:Is that where the Stuart's got off to.  If so please drop them off in an English port so that we can have a discussion with them.  We might have a little time to discuss things with them since discussions will likely be ending in other places.  

Sorry have dropped off the last of my Swedes off either in Scotland or off the coast of Sweden, they still do not seem to float very well even in the Baltic which is really salty.

Can drop off in English Ports some turnips, very high quality French Wine, or some really cheap bargain basement cargo's of timber, general goods or Herring.

Sometimes I am just shocked at how cheap I sale to some merchants.

Game 10 as we've heard has arrived.

1. The Honour race takes an interesting turn this month with the Stadtholder jumping 2 places to rival Lord Melville. Perhaps we will see a King on top of the castle yet. It doesn’t look like it will be King Charles XII who dropped 3 places to place at 8, did vandalising the Paris waterworks really cause that much outrage?

2. Staying in Paris the Gallican Church Council moved so they could hold elections. As this left the room empty it appears His most Christian Majesty got bored and then left. The Council eventually elected Cardinal Xaverius Bartolomeus as Pope Leo XII on a mandate to widen participation in the Curia to Cardinals from other areas and not just mainly Europe. The most interesting repeal post-election was to overturn the worldwide tobacco ban!

3. In a show of foolhardy bravery, one presumes to be in the defence of Dijon, Louis Armand De Bourbon, Prince de Conti and his retinue chased after an Austrian army. In the end having exhausted his horses the Prince was surrounded by Austrian dragoons who he surrendered to.

4. The French laid siege to Genoa this month taking up positions they previously left. By the end of June, they had stormed and captured the breach French forces had previously made. The Doge has been offered the chance to surrender and we await his reply with baited breath.

5. In Stockholm, King Charles was twice disappointed. Firstly, as Sweden experienced a poor harvest and is facing famine. Secondly the Riksdag were not inclined to agree with His Majesty’s wishes over tax reductions.

6. El Escorial saw the death of Portocarrero, The Regent of Spain, at the hands of the Spanish Inquisition. Senior members of the Inquisition were arrested following this, as the Spanish Inquisition was recently outlawed by Royal Decree.

7. Prince Frederick III of Prussia Brandenburg had a very prestigious month by accepting an invitation to visit Dresden, agreeing to send troops to support the Reichsarmee and by being recognised by His Sacred Majesty as King in Prussia.

8. In Madrid the former Spanish Minister for Treasury and Banking was found guilty of corruption but not theft in the matter of the missing 1,000,000 maravedis. Feeling aggrieved that he lost out on this perk of the job Iglesias was however happy to have kept his head.

9. There were various small stories this month with many around small skirmishes and unwelcome recruiting parties.

10. Meknes saw discussion about protecting traders across Asanthene lands and beyond. This would help support the Kola Nut trade and talk in Accra helped extoll the nut’s medicinal benefits to any who would listen.

11. In Okinawa King Sho Tei of Ryuku passed away suddenly having only recently be elevated to Hon- Kunimochi, Lord of Ryuku.

A good update and I agree that point one. The honour table was interesting this month. A bad month for the coalition fighting France.

I would suggest the Swedish honour loss was more celebrating Easter in March than vandalism of the Paris waterworks which as an enemy of France should not have hit honour.

I would suggest the Austrian honour loss was down to breaking a treaty of non aggression with Spain. Austrian troops in Spanish towns.

I would suggest the Genoa honour loss was a symptom of losing his title of spanish viceroy.

Hence the UDP catapulted to second in the honour table. Probably by default from the others rather than   anything he especially done.

Just my take on matters of honour.

jamesbond007 wrote:A good update and I agree that point one. The honour table was interesting this month. A bad month for the coalition fighting France.

I would suggest the Swedish honour loss was more celebrating Easter in March than vandalism of the Paris waterworks which as an enemy of France should not have hit honour.

I would suggest the Austrian honour loss was down to breaking a treaty of non aggression with Spain. Austrian troops in Spanish towns.

I would suggest the Genoa honour loss was a symptom of losing his title of spanish viceroy.

Hence the UDP catapulted to second in the honour table. Probably by default from the others rather than   anything he especially done.

Just my take on matters of honour.

Not sure I would agree that it was a bad month for the coalition fighting France, the Swedish vanguard has blazed a trail to the Isle de France which is now being followed by the Austrian/Imperial Army with seemingly sod all in the way.

The Swedes failed to decoy the defenders of Paris north and away form Paris but they are now well placed to block the French Army of North if it moves south from Flanders to try and save Paris/Versailles. Damn and my Character was kind of hoping uncle Louis was going to give him a commission and he could mount his white horse for a last minute attempt to save the fair ladies of France like his wife and the the Duchess of Artois from rapine and outrage at the hands of Austrian Hussars.

Meanwhile the defenders of the Isle de France seem to be totally unbalance with no Cavalry and hardly any guns. If they fight in the open they will get cut to bits and Versailles looks impossible to defend against being bombarded flat. So it looks like the French will have to abandon it and watch it burn or accept whatever terms the Emperor offers while holding a lighted match next to Louis XIV pride and joy.

So the question is will Louis fold his hand or fort up in the bastille and force the Austrians to clear Paris street by street to get to the Bastille???????!!!!!!! while a lot may depend on questions like were the hell is the French Cavalry/Artillery? And what terms the Emperor offers France? Think it might be interesting to see if players would fight or fold in such circumstances?

As for the question of Swedish honour........doubt it has much to do with the King of Swedens Easter celebrations or wrecking water works. May have something to do with fact that he has just allowed the Russians into Riga and blown a massive hole in Swedish State finances by trying to abolish tax on Russian trade through Swedish Baltic ports. And what is the point of this "appeasement" of the Czar? So the the Swedes can be used as cannon fodder by the Hapsburgs in a Catholic war, a small result of which numbers of Swedish sailors get drowned every time Imperial Hussars burn another French village. If I was a Swedish Noble doubt if I would be very happy or even understand the logic of Swedish policy?

As for the Emperor dipping a bit.......suspect that it may have something to do with the fact that he has abandoned the Hapsburg claim to the throne of Spain and has signed a non aggression pact with and loaned money to a excommunicated Spanish Government & King which has threatened to do nasty things to the Pope.

I would hastened to add that my lack of understanding of the honour system has been proved many, many times and the wrecked water works theory and upset Swedish garden lovers may be correct. Or it is always possible that the Emperor's honour score is static while King William and has merry bunch of protestant politico's and Archbishops are just a super, super nice and honourable and the members of Parliament etc are just really pleased that they are not being asked to spend money and lives like the Swedes to help the Emperor and the Pope (in Rome) win a Catholic war. That or the Dutch have just developed a new and improved Gin and some decent tour maps and are just generally happy unlike many others.

jamesbond007 wrote:A good update

Thank you

jamesbond007 wrote:I would suggest the Swedish honour loss was more celebrating Easter in March than vandalism of the Paris waterworks which as an enemy of France should not have hit honour.

True but my comments were partly about the mystery of how Richard determines honour changes. Russia had a bigger honour change than I would have expected this month so no complaints. Perhaps also helped by the manifesto speech of Pope Leo XII. Too many hidden and unhidden variables this month I suspect.

jamesbond007 wrote:I would suggest the Austrian honour loss was down to breaking a treaty of non aggression with Spain. Austrian troops in Spanish towns.

Announcing his daughter's future conversion to another faith might not have helped either.

jamesbond007 wrote:I would suggest the Genoa honour loss was a symptom of losing his title of spanish viceroy.

That and being offered terms which if refused would likely result in the immediate sacking of Genoa city.

jamesbond007 wrote:Hence the UDP catapulted to second in the honour table. Probably by default from the others rather than   anything he especially done.

Just my take on matters of honour.

Think you and I have similar takes on this part of the game.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

jamesbond007 wrote:A good update and I agree that point one. The honour table was interesting this month. A bad month for the coalition fighting France.

I would suggest the Swedish honour loss was more celebrating Easter in March than vandalism of the Paris waterworks which as an enemy of France should not have hit honour.

I would suggest the Austrian honour loss was down to breaking a treaty of non aggression with Spain. Austrian troops in Spanish towns.

I would suggest the Genoa honour loss was a symptom of losing his title of spanish viceroy.

Hence the UDP catapulted to second in the honour table. Probably by default from the others rather than   anything he especially done.

Just my take on matters of honour.

Not sure I would agree that it was a bad month for the coalition fighting France, the Swedish vanguard has blazed a trail to the Isle de France which is now being followed by the Austrian/Imperial Army with seemingly sod all in the way.

The Swedes failed to decoy the defenders of Paris north and away form Paris but they are now well placed to block the French Army of North if it moves south from Flanders to try and save Paris/Versailles.  Damn and my Character was kind of hoping uncle Louis was going to give him a commission and he could mount his white horse for a last minute attempt to save the fair ladies of France like his wife and the the Duchess of Artois from rapine and outrage at the hands of Austrian Hussars.

Meanwhile the defenders of the Isle de France seem to be totally unbalance with no Cavalry and hardly any guns.  If they fight in the open they will get cut to bits and Versailles looks impossible to defend against being bombarded flat.  So it looks like the French will have to abandon it and watch it burn or accept whatever terms the Emperor offers while holding a lighted match next to Louis XIV pride and joy.

So the question is will Louis fold his hand or fort up in the bastille and force the Austrians to clear Paris street by street to get to the Bastille???????!!!!!!! while a lot may depend on questions like were the hell is the French Cavalry/Artillery?  And what terms the Emperor offers France?  Think it might be interesting to see if players would fight or fold in such circumstances?  

As for the question of Swedish honour........doubt it has much to do with the King of Swedens Easter celebrations or wrecking water works.  May have something to do with fact that he has just allowed the Russians into Riga and blown a massive hole in Swedish State finances by trying to abolish tax on Russian trade through Swedish Baltic ports.  And what is the point of this "appeasement" of the Czar? So the the Swedes can be used as cannon fodder by the Hapsburgs in a Catholic war, a small result of which numbers of Swedish sailors get drowned every time Imperial Hussars burn another French village.  If I was a Swedish Noble doubt if I would be very happy or even understand the logic of Swedish policy?

As for the Emperor dipping a bit.......suspect that it may have something to do with the fact that he has abandoned the Hapsburg claim to the throne of Spain and has signed a non aggression pact with and loaned money to a excommunicated Spanish Government & King which has threatened to do nasty things to the Pope.

I would hastened to add that my lack of understanding of the honour system has been proved many, many times and the wrecked water works theory and upset Swedish garden lovers may be correct.  Or it is always possible that the Emperor's honour score is static while King William and has merry bunch of protestant politico's and Archbishops are just a super, super nice and honourable and the members of Parliament etc are just really pleased that they are not being asked to spend money and lives like the Swedes to help the Emperor and the Pope (in Rome) win a Catholic war.  That or the Dutch have just developed a new and improved Gin and some decent tour maps and are just generally happy unlike many others.  

Don't disagree with any of your comments Stuart.

Austria and Spain signed their treaty nearly a year ago from memory. So any honour loss due to that would have happened long before now. I can see announcing a daughters change of faith causing the honour loss for sure.

Cannot see how Sweden and Russia working together would hurt his honour. Russia seems to be exchanging zero per cent interest rates with most nations.

One thing is for sure spanish honour is not troubling the leaderboard. Game 10 is very interesting. Never has a pope in Rome been so unpopular. Interested to see how that pans out. Never played in a game with two popes.

You are right Stuart the coalition seem to have military success in France itself. Looking forward to the next few turns. A lot of good players playing a good and rather different game in 10 to the norm.

jamesbond007 wrote:Austria and Spain signed their treaty nearly a year ago from memory. So any honour loss due to that would have happened long before now.

Could be because it was just publicised?

jamesbond007 wrote:Cannot see how Sweden and Russia working together would hurt his honour. Russia seems to be exchanging zero per cent interest rates with most nations.

Don't think the Riksdag were too keen and honour seems to me to be about appearance, adherence to accepted culture amongst the elite, and popularity of the PC.

jamesbond007 wrote:Never played in a game with two popes.

Haven't played with an active Pope before - except a few turns when I tried the position, which wasn't for me.

jamesbond007 wrote:You are right Stuart the coalition seem to have military success in France itself. Looking forward to the next few turns. A lot of good players playing a good and rather different game in 10 to the norm.

Agreed.

Thanks Stuart, I thought it was a good month for Austria, Sweden and allies too.

I disagree with Spain that Austria has breached our treaty. The Austrian units in the kingdom of Naples were invited to enter Naples by Karl Hapsburg's viceroy of Naples. For a breach to be found, the Court of Agema will need to rule that Rodrigo is the lawful Hapsburg king of Spain and not Karl Hapsburg.

Great game.

Hapsburg wrote:Thanks Stuart, I thought it was a good month for Austria, Sweden and allies too.

I disagree with Spain that Austria has breached our treaty. The Austrian units in the kingdom of Naples were invited to enter Naples by Karl Hapsburg's viceroy of Naples. For a breach to be found, the Court of Agema will need to rule that Rodrigo is the lawful Hapsburg king of Spain and not Karl Hapsburg.

Great game.

Yes I agree. We do need a ruling from the court of Agema. I shall ask for one. The accepted King of Spain is Rodrigo. King Carlos III of Spain. He sits and rules Spain. Karl Hapsburg was never in Spain ruling it. Only his father and the disgraced Rome pope made Karl King. The Spanish ruling council did not. The viceroy of Naples has lost his title. It now reverts to Spain. Milan was always Spanish and yet Austria sieges it. Not invited by the Viceroy of Naples there are you. You mention Rodrigo has to be the lawful Hapsburg King of Spain. No he doesn’t. There does not have to be a Hapsburg King of Spain. He can be Bourbon or independent.

Austria agreed and signed a treaty with Spain. This in my book is acceptance of its King and ruling council. Part of the treaty says Austria shall not diplomatically or militarily attack Spain. How on earth can you think you have not broken this part of the treaty.?

We shall leave it up to the court of Agema to officiate.

Noooo , no Agema to sort it out !! It's for you ( us ) to sort out ..This is Mike by the way just in case I'm registered as something else .

I may be wrong but I thought "Court Agema" was no longer in use and players could break treaties if they so wished provided they did not mind wrecking their honour score? In a game which is to a large degree about the succession to Carlos II many titles it it mostly certainly not going to make a ruling on who is the true King of Spain, King of Naples, Duke of Milan, Duke of Flanders etc since to do so would rather remove the point of the game.

My thought was the amount of damage you did to your honour score was now down to how bad your Nobles/Church considered your dishonourable actions and the quality of your reasons for your actions. So if you are playing say the Holy Roman Emperor and break a treaty to attack a Prince of the Empire and fellow Christain just because you do not like his jokes the loss of honour is going to be really bad.

But if you break a non aggression pact with the Turks because the Ottoman's are at the gates of Rome or Warsaw and they are slaughtering fellow Catholics you will still suffer a loss of honour (partly due to allowing the Sultan this option) but it will not be so bad as if you are caught out ambushing the Elector of Bavaria or murdering King James after signing a non aggression pact to lull them into a false sence of security and a trap. Esp when you consider that if you do nothing and sit on your hands while Rome burns and nuns get shipped off to the Harem you are going to suffer a loss of honour for that.

Ref the Spanish-Austrian treaty which I have not seen so can not really comment on if its been broken or not. What happened to putting the offending document before the worlds press when making charges of his type!? But my feeling is one side may have said "Spain" meaning the Kingdom of Spain and the other said "Spain" meaning the whole inheritence of Carlos II.

If this is the case the Emperor may have two possible defences a) Spain & Naples are seperate Kingdoms does the treaty just refer to Spain or does it specify the whole inheritence of Carlos II? and b) Was the treaty signed before the Pope excommunication of King Rodrigo of Spain and the Royal Council? Following the excommunication the Emperor can always claim that as a good Catholicy he can have nothing to do with them, they are shunned, treaties null and void etc etc Mind you if he adopts the perfect Catholic defence he can have nothing to do with Spain its going to be a bit hard to call in his loan and are his agreements with non Catholic powers now worth the paper they are written on?

However, in a classic Agema fork do we know if the Emperor is suffering a loss of honour due to breaking a treaty which may not apply to Naples or may be null and void? Or is he suffering a loss of Honour for giving up the Hapsburg claim to Spain to a questionable birth who may or may not be the son of Carlos II? Plus loaning money to men who have probably used some of it to take over (take back?) the Papal fief of Sardinia and may use more of it to fund the take over of other Papal fiefs?

Actually when you consider his use of heretic troops to burn catholic villages, rape nuns and smash up the water supply to a fellow monarch's flower beds can someone please give me some lessons as well as all the rest can someone please explain how the Emperor does it all and still keep his honour score so high????? My Hapsburg in G7 spends his time walking on egg shells and doing good deeds but is still only in 5th place on the honour table. leasons ;s Cathms b

Stuart Bailey wrote:
I may be wrong but I thought "Court Agema" was no longer in use and players could break treaties if they so wished provided they did not mind wrecking their honour score?  

Wasn't that always the case re breaking treaties. TGOK's main rulebook still has Peace Conferences which was where Agema Court was previously? Just looks like a rewording to peace conference. I haven't seen anything to say this does not exist anymore anywhere - can you point me in that direction please?

Just interested as a player on the effects in game not necessarily planning to break any treaties that may have been signed just wondering what might happen if other side broke a treaty.

Nowadays Richard decides if you have broke a treaty or not and if you have he will hit your honour score until you put it right. All on page 40 of the rule book.

jamesbond007 wrote:Nowadays Richard decides if you have broke a treaty or not and if you have he will hit your honour score  until you put it right. All on page 40 of the rule book.

Cheers, thought it had always worked that way, though I might be misremembering.

Marshal Bombast wrote:

jamesbond007 wrote:Nowadays Richard decides if you have broke a treaty or not and if you have he will hit your honour score  until you put it right. All on page 40 of the rule book.

Cheers, thought it had always worked that way, though I might be misremembering.

Richard also does nasty things to your honour score if you fight a civil war (or rebel).

In G2 he ignored view that my character was living by traditional Albanian honour codes and was waging a correctly called blood fued and removed 36 honour points from my character at a point a month untill I put it right and stopped fighting.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Marshal Bombast wrote:

jamesbond007 wrote:Nowadays Richard decides if you have broke a treaty or not and if you have he will hit your honour score  until you put it right. All on page 40 of the rule book.

Cheers, thought it had always worked that way, though I might be misremembering.

Richard also does nasty things to your honour score if you fight a civil war (or rebel).

In G2 he ignored view that my character was living by traditional Albanian honour codes and was waging a correctly called blood fued and removed 36 honour points from my character at a point a month untill I put it right and stopped fighting.

In general it’s hard to gain honour if you are in a war. Richard seems to give honour for peaceful diplomats only. I have taken virtually the whole of India. Greatly increased money and recruits and not received a single honour point for it. This is why small nations are usually seen at or very near the honour board top. I like wars so always near the bottom. The longer you are at war the lower your score.

jamesbond007 wrote:

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Marshal Bombast wrote:

jamesbond007 wrote:Nowadays Richard decides if you have broke a treaty or not and if you have he will hit your honour score  until you put it right. All on page 40 of the rule book.

Cheers, thought it had always worked that way, though I might be misremembering.

Richard also does nasty things to your honour score if you fight a civil war (or rebel).

In G2 he ignored view that my character was living by traditional Albanian honour codes and was waging a correctly called blood fued and removed 36 honour points from my character at a point a month untill I put it right and stopped fighting.

In general it’s hard to gain honour if you are in a war. Richard seems to give honour for peaceful  diplomats  only. I have taken virtually the whole of India. Greatly increased money and recruits and not received a single honour point for it. This is why small nations are usually seen at or very near the honour board top. I like wars so always near the bottom. The longer you are at war the lower your score.

I suspect a lot depends on your position and the reasons for your wars:

In Rumelian example shown above when fighting historic foes (Habsburg's and Venice) and then a alliance of Papist powers who wanted to rip the Ottoman Empire in two my honour was going up at one or two points a turn.  Eventually got it up to a honour score of 55, not that that seemed to impress a lot of people in the Ottoman Empire who still took the side of my back stabbing Janissary foes.

When I finally could not take it any more and turned on my internal foes honour went down again.  Dropping from 55 down to 19 when I finally restored internal peace by wiping out the the last of the traitors and heretics.

Thus for some positions wars can be good or bad for honour depending on what type you fight.  As a rule of thumb fighting a defensive war against unprovoked aggression, against historic foes and to achieve the recovery of lands your position has lost in the past is good for honour.  Fighting wars which cost your people money and lives for vague reasons are bad. It also helps if you win, a bad defeat unless it is a very heroic stand against huge odds tends to be bad for honour.

Also suspect that some positions such as France, Sweden and perhaps some of the Ottoman ones seem to favour strong and aggressive leaders willing to stand up for the counties interests and honour.  While "Society" in powers which favour the development of trade and industry are not so keen on wars.

Finally, I think every position has its strength's and weakness which reflect their historic position.  The Great Moghul for instance has huge numbers of recruits and other physical resources.  But you are playing a character who came to the throne after revolting against his father and then winning a civil war against his brothers.  He is also in a religious minority in his own Empire and has a 50 year back story of killing people with great brutality.  He is not a nice man and is never going to be loved no matter what you do.

Believe Agema intention with the old 1 honour point = 10 units fight at full effect.  Was to allow positions like the Moghul's to raise huge armies but only a hard core would fight well and large numbers would just hang around to see if they needed to run away or join in the looting.

Terrible month - Someone tried to torch some of by favourite investors when Versailles went up in flames (fires probably set to cover theft of documents and really not helped by Swedes taking out the water supply last month! Swedes owe France a new Palace and 200,000 tulip bulbs - what *****), lost 9 barges and despite looking every damn place failed to take one Austrian, Genoa-Naples, or Swede prize.

Have either swept the sea's or someone put blind Pew on look out duty.

If things do not improve soon may have to sign up to the Knights of St John's CORSA or find a new war.

Had hopes that the if the Army captured the bastions and dropped the boom the whole merchant fleet of Genoa might become prizes. But sadly Genoa is now a Plague Port and no one is allowed in or out apart from the Austrians allowed into Tuscany and the Doge allowed to Naples.

Is someone trying to spread the Plague the length of Italy

In fact the only good news is that the Privateering Branch of the French Navy finally got its budget paid

Truely times are hard unless you name is Jean Bart - sat on beach in West Indies, fitting silk sail's to his ships, drinking rum and wondering why all the Spanish Customs officials have gone on strike! But I bet they still manage to collect more at the end of the year than their fellows in G7

" Terrible month." Not for Spain it was a good month. Very nice little honor gain.

[quote="jamesbond007"]" Terrible month." Not for Spain it was a good month. Very nice little honor gain. [/quote

Oddly the Corsairs honour also went up last month but gave up trying to figure why that happens a long time ago.

So have last month down as Me 0 Austrian Hussars 9